Xi195 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 This is a continuation of @tomxcs' topic here:https://www.xrpchat.com/topic/3735-community-initiatives-for-ripple-and-xrp/#comment-37659 INTRODUCTION: Wallets are a foundational component to cryptocurrency as users require a secure method for storing them. I'm slightly ashamed to admit that I've never used one for XRP despite having held XRP since late 2014. A typical response to a new member typically goes something like this; "Rippex is a popular choice, but I can't confirm that personally". Non-techinical individuals like myself are therefore subject to two alternatives. 1. Trust that your XRP is safe on an exchange 2. Trust that the wallet/client you're using isn't malicious. This results in barriers to entry, limiting the rate at which Ripple and XRP are adopted. To resolve this I would like to propose... ABSTRACT: Consolidate the technical efforts of this community to produce an XRP Community Audited, Sourced, and Endorsed, Open-Source Wallet (dare we call it XCASE?) INITIAL DELIVERABLES: Determine if there is a good idea (a worthy goal for this topic, please chime in). Does the closed-source BitGo wallet coming out soon eliminate a need for an open-source alternative? Any thoughts @cmbartley @Malloy @Dizer @Graine @lucky @kanaas @tomb @rippleric @papa @Apollo @Hodor @namini or anyone else? Identify technical individuals or organizations willing to 1. audit the code 2. sign off on it's security 3. update as required Tagging in potential individuals here: @T8493 @Professor Hantzen @xtrapower @jn_r @tulo @ripplerm @jatchili@karlos @yxxyun @Duke67 Tagging in potential organizations here: @Warbler @Rippex @RafOlP@enej @gregor @gatehub Ripple Employees (are there limitations that prevent individual contribution?): @JoelKatz @nikb @mDuo13 @shekenahglory @Tim @warpaul If I missed someone, please tag below and I will add. Assuming #1 is cleared and sufficient hands are raised for #2... Schedule an initial meeting to: Develop management structure Identify an existing wallet to utilize as the codebase Determine a preferred communication platform Schedule regular community conference calls/online meet ups to execute I look forward to this topic being labeled <SUCCESS> by @Mercury @tomxcs or @karlos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 This has been THE major barrier to entry since day 1. I think this is a great idea, but what would make this wallet more secure/trustworthy/reliable than every other wallet ever created by a group with the same mission statement? I always preferred RippleTrade and the original Ripple Wallet simply because of the following logic: Ripple Labs created XRP -> Ripple Labs created RippleTrade -> Risk = Ripple folds = XRP is gone regardless. Safety level = acceptable. Anything that is open-source (scary enough in itself due to possible attack) and created by the community, would run the same risk without the direct affiliation with the currency. I think this is the most important question to a user. Question number 1 - is it secure/trustworthy/reliable? Question number 1a &b How and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xi195 Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Dennis said: I always preferred RippleTrade and the original Ripple Wallet simply because of the following logic: Ripple Labs created XRP -> Ripple Labs created RippleTrade -> Risk = Ripple folds = XRP is gone regardless. Safety level = acceptable. Thanks for chiming in @Dennis. Maybe the BitGo wallet will fill this need? Any thoughts? I have revised deliverable #1 above accordingly. 6 minutes ago, Dennis said: Anything that is open-source (scary enough in itself due to possible attack) and created by the community, would run the same risk without the direct affiliation with the currency. I would feel plenty safe if a handful of the individuals I tagged above signed off on it. While open source !== secure, a well established open-source product is preferable to a private and closed alternative in my opinion (and I believe many others). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8493 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Xi195 said: I would feel plenty safe if a handful of the individuals I tagged above signed off on it. While open source !== secure, a well established open-source product is preferable to a private and closed alternative in my opinion (and I believe many others). RippleTrade still needs to be hosted somewhere and this creates a dependency on the person/entity that hosts it. JavaScript code cannot be digitally signed (at least not in general) and therefore you cannot be sure that the code that the browser is running is the same as code that was audited. The only solution is compiled & digitally signed native app. I could maybe contribute some C# code, but I'm not sure C# is the right choice. C# Ripple library is unmaintaned and the only developer left RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xi195 Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, T8493 said: JavaScript code cannot be digitally signed (at least not in general) and therefore you cannot be sure that the code that the browser is running is the same as code that was audited. This makes sense, but is this true for a desktop client? I guess since JavaScript always runs in the browser, it is? It looks like Karlos has a desktop client for OS X, Windows, and Linux here:https://github.com/karl-os/XRP-CHAT-WALLET/releases 24 minutes ago, T8493 said: I could maybe contribute some C# code, but I'm not sure C# is the right choice. C# Ripple library is unmaintaned and the only developer left RL. You are always very critical from a security perspective. Any contribution you can make would be an asset as you seem to have critical questions whether the project is C# or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namini Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 On 18/04/2017 at 10:11 PM, Dennis said: This has been THE major barrier to entry since day 1. I agree but trust lines, reserve, destination tag must be made super simple for an average person, this is very important because it's so complicated. Maybe from protcol changes (this reserve thing is crazy) but also from a very graphic and user friendly wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8493 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, Xi195 said: This makes sense, but is this true for a desktop client? Yes. There is no easy way to find out whether the code that is executed in a desktop client is the same as the code which was audited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8493 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, namini said: I agree but trust lines, reserve must be made super simple for an average person, this is very important because it's so complicated. Maybe from protcol changes (this reserve thing is crazy) but also from a very graphic and user friendly wallet. Wallet UI can solve most of the issues. UI testing could result in a UI that is very different from what are current Ripple users used to. For example, wallet could have a task oriented UI (which adds a lot of complexity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Considering that most wallets in this space cater to trading crypto, what if you refocused your efforts to a different use case? Potentially using an API to simplify and target a specific task. Similar to what LinkedIN is doing with their multitude of apps. There is the main LinkedIN, which is basically an online database of resumes, then there is LI SalesNavigator, which reorganizes this data into a Sales solution, another app for Learning solutions, another for Talent placement, etc. I've always thought that the crypto currency movement is about so much more than "buy low, sell high" but somehow every wallet wants to turn me into a day trader... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8493 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Dennis said: Considering that most wallets in this space cater to trading crypto, what if you refocused your efforts to a different use case? Sure. The wallet could be just a wallet without any trading functionality. Any trading functionality could be hidden in a function that buys/sells XRPs or converts one currency to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 14 hours ago, T8493 said: Sure. The wallet could be just a wallet without any trading functionality. I'd be fine with this. Just a cold storage wallet on my own computer that could store my XRP. New users could download and send XRP back and forth just like so many other alt coin wallets! This would support ease of adoption by new users that are switching from their other alt coins over to XRP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Yeah exactly. I would think step one would be to gather data. Necessity is the mother of invention. Find out what people need, both in the community and those who've never heard of bitcoin (survey monkey?). Analyze your data and find the opportunity for greatest impact. I for one would love a simple secure cold wallet. Some of the biggest concerns I can think of for "transferring value" among my friends and family are: Interest rates (fees), Identity theft, out of state check clearing time, card real estate in a physical wallet (sounds stupid but just think of all the fancy trifold wallets on the market), small peer to peer transactions (think venmo), easy bill payment (and account balancing). I have to run to a meeting. Hope it helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Hodor said: I'd be fine with this. Just a cold storage wallet on my own computer that could store my XRP. New users could download and send XRP back and forth just like so many other alt coin wallets! This would support ease of adoption by new users that are switching from their other alt coins over to XRP! I would like this but maybe add one small aside, allow the wallet to be upgraded with additional opt-in features. Instead of offering a wallet that has all the bells and whistles that not everyone needs, users could start with the basic feature and enable additional features as needed. Features could be offered over time (to allow for a smooth and TIMELY roll out). I wouldn't even be opposed to advanced features being offered at a cost as long as a portion is funnelled back into development- with profits to be had third parties might have the incentive to keep the wallet going. At some point someone is going to complain that they don't have trailing stops, or bots, or something else. At least this way the basic wallet can act as a foundation for other services to be built on top without complications (or delays). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RafOlP Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Hello guys, I like this thread. Though I have to say that there are opensource wallets out there that never received a single pull request from the community. This sends one of the following messages (or both): The community does not have enough technical resources available for contributing There is no consensus over which wallet to focus efforts on If "1", then we are not able to have a wallet project. If "2" this thread is helpful since it can generate consensus enough to mobilize a critical mass of resources that can put a wallet up. I hope we are in "2". Links for some opensource wallets: https://github.com/ripplerm/ripple-wallet https://github.com/rippex/ripple-client-desktop https://github.com/jatchili/minimalist-ripple-client https://github.com/Autodidactic-I/TheWorldExchange https://github.com/yxxyun/ripple-client-desktop https://github.com/yxxyun/ripple-wallet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xi195 Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Hodor said: Just a cold storage wallet on my own computer that could store my XRP. I think all of this could be worked out if there were sufficient interest in the topic which does not seem to be the case so far. I do think integrating the unique features of Ripple such as multisig and escrow would be important. I'm not sure who segrax is (are you here somewhere?), but he his wallet includes functionality for both and seems to be well maintained: https://github.com/segrax/xrp-wallet 1 hour ago, RafOlP said: The community does not have enough technical resources available for contributing Considering the number of open source wallets I would assume the technical resources are available, but they have not been focused. That was really the purpose of this topic. To see if we could generate interest in focusing these efforts. If there's interest, we can move on to finding consensus on #2. 1 hour ago, RafOlP said: Links for some opensource wallets: Adding https://github.com/karl-os/XRP-CHAT-WALLET/releases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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