zuki305 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) After emotions comes meditation, and if you don't leave the ego behind, you're just not made for investment. <- -- You see here, how it's easy to talk about emotions??? After a whole day meditating, I realized that I had never asked myself the right questions so Lets talk about facts. Ripple is no different than Amazon, Tesla, any company that accepts some type of public participation speaks directly to their investors about the value, profits, etc, in comparison in the cryptocurrencies world we can see the same exercise with the statements of Vitalik Buterin about ETH, - "Ethereum's Price Rise Increases Our Sovereignty" .. when, just one time on XRP, anyone from ripple has said something about the XRP value to holders ?? - I have searched, not found once. Second, I can't find an explanation why XRP it wouldn't be a cheap coin..very much like a stable coin...a cheap coin makes it look accessible and be accessible for everyone. Plz, emotionless, just facts Edited June 11, 2020 by zuki305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian_Williams Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, zuki305 said: After emotions comes meditation, and if you don't leave the ego behind, you're just not made for investment. <- -- You see here, how it's easy to talk about emotions??? After a whole day meditating, I realized that I had never asked myself the right questions so Lets talk about facts. Ripple is no different than Amazon, Tesla, any company that accepts some type of public participation speaks directly to their investors about the value, profits, etc, in comparison in the cryptocurrencies world we can see the same exercise with the statements of Vitalik Buterin about ETH, - "Ethereum's Price Rise Increases Our Sovereignty" .. when, just one time on XRP, anyone from ripple has said something about the XRP value to holders ?? - I have searched, not found once. Second, I can't find an explanation why XRP it wouldn't be a cheap coin..very much like a stable coin...a cheap coin makes it look accessible and be accessible for everyone. Plz, emotionless, just facts Buying XRP is not the same as buying a stake/shares in Ripple Labs. If it were the same as buying shares, then XRP would be a security and that would make it harder to use XRP as a DA. Ripple would be sued if it promoted the value of XRP. David Schwartz has stated very clearly that if XRP becomes used for transferring large amounts of money across borders (its use case and purpose) market makers will need more liquidity, and increasing the value of the tokens is the way to make that liquidity available. High value for the tokens is essential. The token are bought and sold by market makers providing ODL, and this process happens under the bonnet of the API providing the cross border exchange services, so the customer has no knowledge about what price XRP is bought and sold for. Ripple, as owners of about 50% of XRP stock, have a direct interest and benefit from a rise in XRP price. Edited June 11, 2020 by Julian_Williams DannyRipple, Trisky and aavkk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquaryBone Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 hours ago, zuki305 said: Second, I can't find an explanation why XRP it wouldn't be a cheap coin..very much like a stable coin...a cheap coin makes it look accessible and be accessible for everyone. Just saying : this has been discussed plenty of times on this forum tbh. I'm quite surprised for someone who's been in this for 3 years doesn't seem to have thought about it. But ok here I go again These numbers are very rough, so no need for people to say it's 49%, 40%, ... just the principle. If you have 1$ XRP you can move a theoretical maximum of 50 billion $ (50% in escrow). And that's if you only have 2 parties transacting and one party has all the XRP that's available and that value can be transferred only once until it's transferred back. Picture that multiple hundreds of parties need to transact with each other and that a LOT less than those 50% (lost XRP, wallet reserve, founders having a stash, ...) is available on the market ... How are you going to have enough value represented in XRP to transact (so how would everyone combined transact 100 billion if there's only 50 billion $ of XRP? This also doesn't take into account the HUGE spread you'd have. You'd just be buying the whole orderbook. That's why liquidity is key. The only reasonable order in the orderbook are those that have a very small spread otherwise the existing rails become more efficient again. So there's even a lot less than those 50billion XRP that's useful for ODL transactions (perhaps 1% but probably even less). If liquidity is good ODL becomes cheaper than existing rails, that drives demand for ODL. Because there's more demand more marketmakers will join to profit from the demand. So it's a chicken and egg situation. I had hoped Ripple could overcome that chicken and egg situation by paying/investing in/... MGI however it didn't work so that's why this is a major setback to me. So individual ODL transfers don't bring price movement but having a demand that exceeds what's available does. A second part is that at some point treasuries could hold a stack of XRP directly instead of using ODL. That would be cheaper for them since you only have one exchange rate and only spread on one side. But since step 1 is not really working out we still seem to be very far away from that happening. I had already thought about selling months ago but the MGI announcement made me wait to see how quickly they could bring up the liquidity. I said to myself if this fails, stalls or goes up too slowly I'll sell (based on price vs current valuation: the ODL volume is so low in comparison with the total volume making XRP simply extremely overpriced). I almost forgot about that intention (that's why everyone should have a plan and should write it down which I didn't. yes another lesson learnt ). Also Ripple does not want to talk about XRP price and forecasts as it brings them in securities waters. Doesn't matter what anyone says about it. They want to be distanced from having anything to do with the price and don't want to present XRP as a way to make money. Ethereum is not a company, nor is bitcoin (seen as a commodity). Ripple is a private company Tesla is not. Tesla can talk to their shareholders (publicly since they're a public company) and so can Ripple (privately since they're a private company) but XRP are not shares so they don't have to. Ripple is also not focused on retail so why would they? moncho, Julian_Williams, jbjnr and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn_r Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 The thinking of DS: While liquidity is still scarce, better opt for many small transactions. If each transaction is a usage, then one big transaction does not add as much to the usage as many small.. The philosophy behind might be, that XRP price is not so much determined by supply and demand (XRP or any other cryptocurrency is not that scarce), but more by speculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian_Williams Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, jn_r said: The thinking of DS: While liquidity is still scarce, better opt for many small transactions. If each transaction is a usage, then one big transaction does not add as much to the usage as many small.. The philosophy behind might be, that XRP price is not so much determined by supply and demand (XRP or any other cryptocurrency is not that scarce), but more by speculation. until utility hits in a scale - Galgitron's dancing monkey on a rising platform of utility is a very good metaphor. Unfortunately the platform is at a very low base at the moment, so XRP has no fundamental price below which it cannot slip I sympathise with @SquaryBone strategy of putting money on other assets that have been preforming better in the speculative markets, but I am not a gambler, I am an investor. I invest in projects I think have long term future prospects, so I am in for the ride no matter how low it goes in the meantime. moncho, jbjnr, DannyRipple and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquaryBone Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, jn_r said: The thinking of DS: While liquidity is still scarce, better opt for many small transactions. If each transaction is a usage, then one big transaction does not add as much to the usage as many small.. The philosophy behind might be, that XRP price is not so much determined by supply and demand (XRP or any other cryptocurrency is not that scarce), but more by speculation I think you're misreading that statement. Robert is talking about the XRP that's being burnt to transact and how those measly few drops or XRP will trigger supply and demand. That's basically the first part where DS doesn't agree with: "not that XRP will get value because you need it to perform transaction". But the value will come because you actually use the XRP as a SoV/representing the value you transfer. Robert has no clue and seems to be stuck in 2017 when this thinking was repeated daily. The philosophy is totally not that XRP is a pure/mostly speculative asset. Quite the contrary. I don't get how you come to this conclusion :s Trisky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn_r Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, SquaryBone said: I think you're misreading that statement. Robert is talking about the XRP that's being burnt to transact and how those measly few drops or XRP will trigger supply and demand. That's basically the first part where DS doesn't agree with: "not that XRP will get value because you need it to perform transaction". But the value will come because you actually use the XRP as a SoV/representing the value you transfer. Robert has no clue and seems to be stuck in 2017 when this thinking was repeated daily. The philosophy is totally not that XRP is a pure/mostly speculative asset. Quite the contrary. I don't get how you come to this conclusion :s Hmm, yes maybe misread, you might be right. Just trying to grasp why they would want to focus on small transactions. I do think - let's call it my own view then - that XRP price is still purely speculative It's all in the mind of what people believe it's worth. A bit like the stock market, that reacts extremely on emotions. SquaryBone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquaryBone Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Julian_Williams said: I sympathise with @SquaryBone strategy of putting money on other assets that have been preforming better in the speculative markets, but I am not a gambler, I am an investor. I invest in projects I think have long term future prospects, so I am in for the ride no matter how low it goes in the meantime. Perhaps I've misworded some things but I want to derisk as this is very speculative like a lot of other projects. I'm not a gambler either and I want to "invest" in a sound company/crypto that has a real use-case and real customers and the right people in the right places. I see that in Ripple/SBI/R3. Sadly the results have not been there I have de-risked until I see some good signs. There's plenty of cryptos that are doing great at the moment but I won't put any money in them if they don't have sound fundamentals. (which means I won't put any more money in crypto unless it's like a tracker ) These other crypto projects are extremely overvalued as well and I won't put any money in them unless they get to a reasonable price. That could still take a long time or might be when it's clear that the project has already failed/died since a lot of people in crypto are unreasonable and have unreasonable expectations. LetHerRip 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquaryBone Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, jn_r said: Hmm, yes maybe misread, you might be right. Just trying to grasp why they would want to focus on small transactions. I do think - let's call it my own view then - that XRP price is still purely speculative It's all in the mind of what people believe it's worth. A bit like the stock market, that reacts extremely on emotions. I think those smaller transactions are better because liquidity and spread is better when transacting with smaller amounts. It's also my view that at this point we're back at the point that XRP is still purely speculative. Usage is negligible in comparison with the total volume and non-existent in comparison with the potential value of XRP in 10 - 12 years (see other thread about that). LetHerRip and jn_r 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian_Williams Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, SquaryBone said: Perhaps I've misworded some things but I want to derisk as this is very speculative like a lot of other projects. I'm not a gambler either and I want to "invest" in a sound company/crypto that has a real use-case and real customers and the right people in the right places. I see that in Ripple/SBI/R3. Sadly the results have not been there I have de-risked until I see some good signs. There's plenty of cryptos that are doing great at the moment but I won't put any money in them if they don't have sound fundamentals. (which means I won't put any more money in crypto unless it's like a tracker ) These other crypto projects are extremely overvalued as well and I won't put any money in them unless they get to a reasonable price. That could still take a long time or might be when it's clear that the project has already failed/died since a lot of people in crypto are unreasonable and have unreasonable expectations. I agree except I do not think Ripplenet/ODL will fail. They are here to stay. SquaryBone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn_r Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, SquaryBone said: I think those smaller transactions are better because liquidity and spread is better when transacting with smaller amounts. It's also my view that at this point we're back at the point that XRP is still purely speculative. Usage is negligible in comparison with the total volume and non-existent in comparison with the potential value of XRP in 10 - 12 years (see other thread about that). Yes I think we are more or less on the same line. So for the liquidity better to use small transactions (at least for now) and I think the large transactions we saw recently don't push the XRP price (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobysi Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I will still pea myself laughing if this is just how it happens going from topping up n/v accounts to the actual individual payments (where the drop off is the n/v getting used up) as it is the holy land of what Ripple have targeted & we have been seeking for years but here we are all shitting our pants..... Gambaard and Flintstone 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabellum Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 14 hours ago, RippleRicky said: @Parabellum I meant wealthy off of the crypto space in general not XRP. Take it easy with the cult talk that’s just ridiculous lol. Yet you still use 'will'. How can you be 100% sure? You seem to be convinced there is no risk attached to this all, as all will be good in the longer run 'anyways'. I find that a very poor mindset in such a high risk environment as this one. That type of conviction in the face of great uncertainty does indeed automatically result in comparison with religious conviction, hence the cult comparison. Cryptocurrencies can fail, make no mistake. Partially or wholly. There are zero guarantees in this sector. Lamberth, SquaryBone and LetHerRip 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippleRicky Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) @Parabellum omg stop picking apart everything anyone says. I’m not a financial advisor nor am I your personal advisor in any way. Make your own choices but someone’s getting rich or broke whether that’s me or you or someone else , who knows. Furthermore, plenty have amassed successful returns thus far so it’s not far fetched to have the same chance that they did. Take your talk of cult and whatever other babble and simply bow out if you have nothing productive to say. Edited June 12, 2020 by RippleRicky DannyRipple, LetHerRip, SquaryBone and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuki305 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) After everything has been clarified, and taking advantage of the momentary fall, I'm in again, with a few thousand extras XRP. Edited June 14, 2020 by zuki305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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