XRP Incentive to developers

[Eric123]

I posted this in the Trading Area- Any thoughts???

 

How can Ripple increase - liquidity, market cap, use, trust, distribution, create a community of developers vested in the success of xrp and make all of us rich, with no out of pocket cost and without diverting any resources or focus from Ripple's mission of creating the best, cheapest, fastest system for cross border bank transfers - EASY.  Ripple takes one billion of the 33 billion xrp already held in trust or they hold an additional billion XRP in trust.  Ripple Labs then announces that they are looking to create a community of blockchain developers and companies to create  applications/wallets and uses for the XRP blockchain.    Ripple starts accepting proposals and every month they award 1,000,000 xrp to the top 10 applications.  The 1,000,000 xrp will be held in trust for the awarded company and distributed to them in 18 months.  This would get the entire community focused on the Ripple blockchain and XRP at virtually no cost to Ripple.  

That's the framework.   Someone get this to Ripple labs.

[Guest]

Good luck... Ripple is struggling with the management of their own forum.

[T8493]

Ripple Labs tried to subsidize open-source development (or at least somehow attract or motivate IT talent) in the past and they failed. Examples: GitHub giveaway, Computing for Good, they were even paying for open-source contributions, CrossCoin Ventures etc.

[Eric123]

9 minutes ago, T8493 said:

Ripple Labs tried to subsidize open-source development (or at least somehow attract or motivate IT talent) in the past and they failed. Examples: GitHub giveaway, Computing for Good, they were even paying for open-source contributions, etc.

Yeah but those giveaways were hardly anything.  4k xrp what was that worth.  One of the main things XRP lacks is a community and they aren't gonna build one without incentives.  Ripple has billions of XRP why not fund innovation, draw in publicity and create a community at the same time, for virtually no cost and without changing the focus of Ripple Labs.  It's what I would do if I were CEO.  I can't see a downside.  Yeah you give away some XRP but it grows the brand.  Like they said they're not about getting a bigger slice of pie, they're about growing the pie.  Well grow the damn pie!!

[T8493]

5 minutes ago, Eric123 said:

Yeah but those giveaways were hardly anything.  4k xrp what was that worth.  One of the main things XRP lacks is a community and they aren't gonna build one without incentives.  Ripple has billions of XRP why not fund innovation, draw in publicity and create a community at the same time, for virtually no cost and without changing the focus of Ripple Labs.  It's what I would do if I were CEO.  I can't see a downside.  Yeah you give away some XRP but it grows the brand.  Like they said they're not about getting a bigger slice of pie, they're about growing the pie.  Well grow the damn pie!!

Growing an ecosystem is not just giving away "free" XRPs to developers. If they wanted to support an open source ecosystem, they would need to build better infrastructure, better libraries/development tools, etc. first. Most of the "blockchain" developers aren't capable of developing low-level solutions and they need high quality high-level libraries.

[Di3twater]

@T8493 My team and I at Secure Block Chains - Reservoir have been deep in the Rippled documentation for quit a while, their "development tools" are above average relative to other blockchains. As far as libraries go we don't use any of ripple's libraries we built are own to interface with our rippled node.  

 

@Eric123 I hate to say it but the worst thing right now stopping a booming xrp developer ecosystem in some respect is the xrp community, there is way to many pessimistic members of the community I'm not sure where it comes from and why it is so prevalent but from my own experience and what I have seen of others, presenting an xrp based project to the community no matter the scope gets flagged down with the immortal words of SCAM! This is the first wall most developers will face with xrp.

[pftq]

Their tech and documentation is fine.  It's mainly the business/communications side.  They need to be more open to communicating and working side by side with community developers and their projects.  I understand they're focused on banks, but they seem pretty well funded.  It shouldn't be that difficult to hire out a dedicated division or team whose purpose is to support third party developers outside of their bank focus.

Just speaking on my own experience, I've probably spent at least several thousand hours of time and over a couple hundred thousand actual dollars to work projects relating to Ripple, but it's a pretty discouraging when RL more or less is not even willing to talk - at least on an official basis. (I shared a reply a while back that basically was an automated response repeating they were only interested in talking to banks.)  There are a few employees here that are more communicative, but at best, it's just wishing you luck.

If you look at other blockchain communities like Ethereum or even Stellar, they have dedicated groups specifically for supporting projects from the community.

Edited December 2, 2017 by pftq

[Sukrim]

7 hours ago, Di3twater said:

@T8493 My team and I at Secure Block Chains - Reservoir have been deep in the Rippled documentation for quit a while, their "development tools" are above average relative to other blockchains. As far as libraries go we don't use any of ripple's libraries we built are own to interface with our rippled node.

Do you have code for these libraries publicly available?

I also don't really understand your business proposition on that page: Escrow is not a second layer, it is directly a feature of XRPL itself. How would a compromised destination address be "re-secured" in time until funds are released? All in all you are building an app that can just issue a single transaction type, right?

[T8493]

7 hours ago, Di3twater said:

@T8493 My team and I at Secure Block Chains - Reservoir have been deep in the Rippled documentation for quit a while, their "development tools" are above average relative to other blockchains. As far as libraries go we don't use any of ripple's libraries we built are own to interface with our rippled node.  

Well, documentation of most crypto projects really sucks, and it shouldn't be used as a benchmark. Something like MSDN should be used as a benchmark, though.

Why did you build your own library? How much engineering effort did this require and what was the ROI of that? Does your library cover all edge cases? Was it audited? Is it cryptographically secure? Does it support all transaction types, even the more obscure ones?

 

[Sukrim]

They need only one single transaction type. Their "library" can be something like this:

sign_escrow(account_secret, destination_address, xrp_amount, release_timestamp):
  # package everything as JSON and send to a trusted server for signing and submisssion
  # shouldn't take more than 10 lines in Python

 

[Guest]

Maybe they could do something with Techcrunch, they have been fairly successful with competitions like Startup battle field. 

[Di3twater]

Quote

5 hours ago, Sukrim said:

Do you have code for these libraries publicly available?

I also don't really understand your business proposition on that page: Escrow is not a second layer, it is directly a feature of XRPL itself. How would a compromised destination address be "re-secured" in time until funds are released? All in all you are building an app that can just issue a single transaction type, right?

It seems you have incorrectly restated the contents of that page.We did not state that escrow is some "second layer" on top of the RCL, here is a quote from that page " Escrowed XRP is stored as an object directly on the ledger". We never mention anything about re-securing your destination address the statement clearly says "to re-secure a new address to route your XRP to in the event of a security breach in your personal wallets or addresses".  Basically an escrow gives you a window of opportunity to route your xrp to a new address. I feel that ripple themselves give an amazing use case for this in regards to their 55 billion xrp lockup. Here is the quote with a provided link just scroll down to why escrow to find the origins of the quote it should be under the Use Case: Time-based Lockup section under the solution paragraph.  

Ripple Escrow Quote Source

"Placing the money into escrow does not directly protect Ripple's holdings from malicious actors, but it sharply reduces the amount of XRP that can be quickly stolen or redirected if a malicious actor gains temporary control over Ripple's XRP accounts. This reduces the risk of catastrophic losses of XRP and increases the time for Ripple to detect, prevent, and track down unintended uses of Ripple's XRP assets."

In regards to your question about our libraries, users should not have an assumption that developer libraries are public by default and visible for all to see. Our libraries are only for use by our company and there are currently no plans to make them publicly available or "open source".

5 hours ago, T8493 said:

Well, documentation of most crypto projects really sucks, and it shouldn't be used as a benchmark. Something like MSDN should be used as a benchmark, though.

Why did you build your own library? How much engineering effort did this require and what was the ROI of that? Does your library cover all edge cases? Was it audited? Is it cryptographically secure? Does it support all transaction types, even the more obscure ones?

 

You seem to have some overly complex ideas of what it takes to create a library. Most in house libraries are created with a limited scope of responsibly and are not attended to cover all edge cases. In regard to your question about audits, code libraries are not taxes there is no "audit" that takes place simply peer review and good testing is needed.  

4 hours ago, Sukrim said:

They need only one single transaction type. Their "library" can be something like this:

sign_escrow(account_secret, destination_address, xrp_amount, release_timestamp):
  # package everything as JSON and send to a trusted server for signing and submisssion
  # shouldn't take more than 10 lines in Python

 

Though our library does more then this, great job on the example. For those that may not know what a code library actually is, its just some code that does a task and generally speaking helps with removing code duplication and abstracting of responsibility. 

Thank you for the initial feedback we are in beta and would love if you guys took a deeper dive into the service and gave more of your thoughts. As it stands the minimum deposit is 1 xrp and 5min for the mature date. This makes it easy for users to test without committing to a large investment. 

Please send feedback to this Thread or to contact@secureblockchains.com

For all technical issues email tech@secureblockchains.com

The xrp community is well deserving of some killer apps and simply things to do with their xrp but the sad truth is that ripple is focus entirely on financial institutions and banks. This means individual consumers are not really their focus which makes since for what they are trying to do. We are making strides towards bringing many tools for this community but we can't do that unless the community trust us and early adopters break the ice for more users. Lets jump start the xrp ecosystem! 

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Di3twater

[Sukrim]

"Basically an escrow gives you a window of opportunity to route your xrp to a new address."

...how?

Let's say I have Account A and Account B and logged into Account A in a shady internet cafe, so I'm getting worried that someone might have had a keylogger on there or whatever. How does your product help in this case? The proper way imho would be to transfer all funds (not just XRP) to Account B and re-key Account A with a https://ripple.com/build/transactions/#setregularkey transaction.

Escrow recipients can't be changed after the EscrowCreate transaction was successful, so how would you "route" funds using escrows?

[Di3twater]

Once again here is ripples quote 

"if a malicious actor gains temporary control over Ripple's XRP accounts. This reduces the risk of catastrophic losses of XRP and increases the time for Ripple to detect, prevent, and track down unintended uses of Ripple's XRP assets."

if you have x amount of xrp in escrow for lets say 3 months or 3 years any unauthorized access to that destination account would need to monitor your account and by extension the RCL for that allotted amount of time, which is a lot of overhead for the attacker to manage and maintain. Couple this with the uncertainty of success and volatility of xrp value and you have potential low ROI for the attacker and a large window of opportunity for you to rescue your xrp and transfer them to a new secure address.

[Sukrim]

15 minutes ago, Di3twater said:

if you have x amount of xrp in escrow for lets say 3 months or 3 years any unauthorized access to that destination account would need to monitor your account and by extension the RCL for that allotted amount of time, which is a lot of overhead for the attacker to manage and maintain. Couple this with the uncertainty of success and volatility of xrp value and you have potential low ROI for the attacker and a large window of opportunity for you to rescue your xrp and transfer them to a new secure address.

Ok, so the idea is to put my XRP into an escrow towards the "safe" Account B for e.g. 5 minutes, but don't specify a CancelAfter time, so that at any later point in time after 5 minutes, Account B could EscrowFinish? Since Account B is "safe" though, it doesn't really make sense for the attacker to monitor this Escrow, no matter if it settles immediately or in 3 years. If there is a CancelAfter time, the attacker would immediately after that timestamp cancel the Escrow (which anyone can do) and sign a payment using Account A towards his/her own address.

If I funded an escrow towards A instead, someone who actually also compromised that account would just need to wait for the FinishAfter time stamp and send an EscrowFinish as well as a Payment towards his/her own address... so there's not much monitoring necessary.

Why would anyone who is hoping to receive an escrowed transaction have to monitor the ledger for its duration?

Anyways, please give a clear example (something with Alice/Bob/Eve or similar), I'm still not sure what type of attack you are hoping to prevent or make expensive.