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Thinking crypto interview with Hugo


Seoulite
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2 hours ago, BillyOckham said:


I thought that was a central aspect to Flare.  If not that,  then what exactly does Flare do?

 

Listening to the vid….    he is basically saying we are building a fast cheap Etherium Virtual Machine network that is layer one for any smart contract related use case.  It will be aware of any other blockchain that is added to the FTSO.

Eg micropayments on Twitter or any smart contract related defi type thing.

But yeah….   apparently the layer1 is a big enough problem to solve in itself that Flare will need the community to build on that layer.

 

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3 hours ago, BillyOckham said:


I thought that was a central aspect to Flare.  If not that,  then what exactly does Flare do?

 

I've heard him say elsewhere that the idea of Flare as a smart contract layer for non-smart contract chains is now outdated, hence the 'connect everything' rebrand. 

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12 hours ago, Seoulite said:

Main points that stood out to me:

— he is not commenting at all about listing of tokens, which could mean no listings or just a handful 

— S-assets and F assets he is now talking about as Dapps which will be delivered by developers and not the flare team. He also said anyone could just take the code and launch F assets whenever they want(?). So it seems that F assets as part of the “suite” has been shoved out and is not spoken of in the same way as FTSO and State Connector. How does this affect demand, tokenomics etc? (remember the flywheels?)  My impression is that Hugo has moved on from the image of Fassets and Flare being tied up with tokens and stuff and is now focused heavily on data. Impression is that he is not all that interested in talking about tokens, and I guess after the distribution event he won’t mention Fassets much.

— a lot of “functionality” that he talks about will not be available on day one and will need to be built out by developers. This means that there is added complication around grants, supporting partnerships, and just general development interest. The full realization of flare will be a long, long process.

I am actually kind of ambivalent/positive about this change in tack. From the very beginning, I felt that Flare was trying to do too much; trying to be everything to everyone. This usually ends poorly. Meanwhile, the FTSO system on its own, has the potential to be absolutely groundbreaking, far more than people realize. Being able to connect real world data to smart contracts was the missing link for crypto functionality. Due to this, I am far more enthusiastic about Flare from a tech pov (if not financial) than I am for XRP.

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6 hours ago, Seoulite said:

I've heard him say elsewhere that the idea of Flare as a smart contract layer for non-smart contract chains is now outdated, hence the 'connect everything' rebrand. 

Frankly, I'm no longer enthusiastic about Flare. I'm open to changing distribution mechanisms, airdrops, etc, but to me the value proposition of Flare was FTSO + F-Assets. F-Assets was going to be the proof-point, the real world example, that uses FTSO.  If they had built F-Assets for a couple of networks and then left it to the ecosystem for additional development, that's one thing. This is different.

If the original pitch has changed, then best of luck to them but it's probably not for me anymore. Ironically, I think this greatly helps FLR.Finance. Their Flare Wrap product was at risk with F-Assets. 

Edited by Ripley
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4 hours ago, Gringo said:

That so called "potential" is based on changing the narrative every three years after not delivering the older narrative.

The potential of the FTSO as a solution to sourcing data is independent of the success of flare. The idea is out in the wild now. Regardless of how one feels about the team and their competence, It is undeniable that the FTSO solution they came up with is pretty remarkable. Whether or not it is Flare that makes use of it, I feel confident that it-- or something similar-- will change the landscape of distributed systems going forward. Sourcing data in a distributed manner is way more critical than people realize (I don't think Flare even fully realizes it). Any ratio or interval data (and possibly ordinal), can now be sourced in a distributed way, with built in disincentives to collusion. No more relying on centralized third parties that can be corrupted or leaned upon by government. That is huge for executing smart contracts and defi. Of course, potential is just that...potential. And it remains to be seen what challenges this solution may face as it scales. 

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 It is undeniable that the FTSO solution they came up with is pretty remarkable

The FTSO implementation has been already gamed by collusion on September. The market is not stupid. You don't need to "sell" me anything here. I already wrote that as long as the price os FLR is larger than SGB I will simply trade some FLR for SGB (and maybe some for XRP).

But the point is, the market reflects the reduction in value of the Flare system as a whole and now we (the general public) know ANOTHER reason why...

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6 hours ago, Gringo said:

The FTSO implementation has been already gamed by collusion on September. The market is not stupid. You don't need to "sell" me anything here. I already wrote that as long as the price os FLR is larger than SGB I will simply trade some FLR for SGB (and maybe some for XRP).

But the point is, the market reflects the reduction in value of the Flare system as a whole and now we (the general public) know ANOTHER reason why...

Who the hell is selling you anything? Don't flatter yourself. And for the record, I'm not shilling Flare. I doubt it will be a money making investment. I'm solely talking about a unique and interesting decentralized solution they came up with. And, in theory a TSO executed correctly should be largely resistant to collusion. That is not to say there will not be errors in that execution or flawed implementations. But even if it is flawed, it would still be miles better than using a centralized source, which is currently the only option. 

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Who the hell is selling you anything?

Aparently you. Anyway, as I said since I pretend to sell FLR for SGB/XRP it's in my best insterest that other people find value there, at least until I sell.

Of course SGB could still be droping from currently $0.01 to $0.001 or $0.0000001 or who knows, but I don't see FLR skyrocketing and SGB not, because they are essentially the same product with a different ticker (only that FLR's inflation is way bigger than SGB).

The F-Asset proposition that got the attention of many of us it has turned out to be just vaporware. So the value (not talking about price) of the Flare/Songbird system is lower for me.  1 FLR Bitrue IOU buys you 38 SGB at the moment.

Regarding "centralized source" pay attention at this type of twits:

 

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On 12/22/2022 at 2:30 PM, Gringo said:

Aparently you.

Get over yourself. When did I say anything about price? I think your Flare Derangement Syndrome is clouding your judgement. I was talking primarily about the FTSO system. As I said, I find it remarkable from a technical standpoint. That doesn't mean I necessarily find Flare remarkable, or am not troubled as well by their team's unprofessionalism. But apparently saying anything positive about a technology that happens to be related to Flare is anathema to the emotional "WEN AIRDROP??!!" crowd.

Regarding your tweet. what exactly do you suppose you are proving? lol. A new architecture no one has tried before is facing growing pains and flawed implementation?  Wow. Thanks for the insight. Clearly, this new idea that is not perfectly executed the first time is garbage and should be ignored henceforth. 

You sound a bit like Gary Gensler, et al: "Crypto XYZ was flawed or a scam, therefore all crypto is useless and shit technology".  

Is the FTSO solution currently flawed? Probably. But that is how technologies improve. As a potential solution to sourcing data in a decentralize manner, do you have a better one? If so, I would love to hear about it. Hell, I'll even write a post about it on XRPchat. But as far as I know, no other layer one has even proposed a solution to the problem. 

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