Are the delays damaging to Flare?

[Seoulite]

With the news of yet another delay, the Discord is a sh*tshow. I guess twitter and telegram are the same. 

Community negativity towards the project is very high, those who aren't angry are indifferent. There are defenders, but is there anyone who is still hyped? If they are, are they saying it out loud?

Does it make a difference though? I think the attitude from Flare seems to be that it will all be so awesome that everyone will just forget about being angry. Or that money is always a good motivator. The 'first impression' for Flare though has been made, and for many it isn't good.

More than that though, I am concerned about the projects building on Flare. It's all well and good for the Flare team with their massive funding to keep kicking things down the road, but I highly doubt that the signal providers, DEXs, Metaverses, and any other business plans that were created around the launch of Flare have infinite funding to just keep waiting. They would've been counting on income from the FTSO, and/or just straight expecting to be up and running by now. How is this damaging the main team's relationship with those other teams, I wonder?

Finally, there may be a group of people who were planning to stay with Flare long term but have now decided to dump as soon as they get the airdrop. In the long run, if Flare is as great as they say, that probably won't matter. But it's hard to quantify what effects this negativity will be having in the short term.

[BillyOckham]

8 minutes ago, Seoulite said:

but I highly doubt that the signal providers, DEXs, Metaverses, and any other business plans that were created around the launch of Flare have infinite funding to just keep waiting. They would've been counting on income from the FTSO, and/or just straight expecting to be up and running by now. How is this damaging the main team's relationship with those other teams, I wonder?

An excellent point.  I don’t think they can do anything other  than just hold on though.  I doubt any serious providers would give up this close to the line.

As to the noise….    it doesn’t bother me because the entitled whingers will always moan at the slightest inconvenience to their free money plan.  They will cut and run as soon as they can….  and good riddance.

I do hope it truly does turn out to be awesome….   time will tell.

 

[xrp_sea]

They've lost a lot of credibility. Their attitude is that they can just change the dates at will, and everyone will continue to follow them like some kind of cult. I personally think they're run into more problems than they're willing to talk about. I suspect they don't really have the technology or team to execute their vision. 

[Montoya]

I can't speak for others but to me the constant vacillation and uncertainty is a bit of a red flag. 

 

[Gringo]

The narrative is: "The project has evolved far beyond the initial plan". But it's just vaporware. All that "evolution" (if real), should be running on the canary network (SGB). But we still have not even the S-Assets.

Also having Terra-Luna's Do Kwan as investor instead of Ripple (that already divested) contributes to the bad mojo. 

[Guest]

I thought it wasn’t going to be tradable until the proposal vote goes through anyway, so not sure what the issue is.

With songbird people complained that people who didn’t self custody got the tokens late and were at a disadvantage… 

I think Hugo has the right intentions but he desperately needs a better community relations person.

Here’s how I got affected - I didn’t sell the tokens I made earlier this year from Loans, even knowing there was going to be a further crash, because I assumed that S-Assets will be ready by now and I wanted to wait for that. Because of lack of progress on that front, I now have to pay taxes on the price I received the SGB and it’s a significant amount. That’s on me. I took the risk and while I’m not happy I have made my peace with it. 

But even more importantly, FLR Finance had to change their execution strategy due to the delay. So that point of impact to developers is obviously valid.

I hope that during the next three-five months, as we wait for FLR markets to be available, they make progress on Songbird.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Ripley

[RambeauTeasebox]

Many of the novel features that Flare promised are vapor. Songbird is great - but it's mostly Avalanche. How many of the promised features are available on Songbird yet, or even the test net?

Flare's communication has been awful, full stop. The latest delay is nonsense. Another wait for the most devoted individuals (self-custody folks), project teams and the most on-the-ball exchanges is "fair?"

I've been strongly following Flare and quite excited about it since it was announced, and I've been actively participating in and testing Songbird and the projects on it since day one. The last few months and, this latest announcement especially, are making me think about dumping it ASAP and just concentrating on XRPL, Ethereum and Hedera, as I have been for years now.

Edited October 22, 2022 by RambeauTeasebox

[ftso_au]

22 hours ago, Seoulite said:

but I highly doubt that the signal providers, DEXs, Metaverses, and any other business plans that were created around the launch of Flare have infinite funding to just keep waiting. They would've been counting on income from the FTSO, and/or just straight expecting to be up and running by now.

Yes, you’re correct.

Apart from the initial change of plans with Songbird being introduced, we were then expecting to be earning FLR long before July, then October and now what looks like January.

Our service doesn’t earn enough to cover our costs, or anywhere close to it for that matter. I’ll be looking at ways to further reduce costs today.

As a team, we’re all in on this project, I have no choice but to try and ride it out.

[Gringo]

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Apart from the initial change of plans with Songbird being introduced, we were then expecting to be earning FLR long before July, then October and now what looks like January.

 

I apreciate your honesty. It seemed that FTSO providers would need both SGB/FLR rewards to be on the green (or at least that SGB wouldn't tank).

Some providers with their loyalty tokens (sFORT, sRibbits, etc) maybe found a way for an extra source of income if they manage to establish a robust market for their tokens.

Maybe that's an alternative path you could consider?

[Seoulite]

2 hours ago, ftso_au said:

Yes, you’re correct.

Apart from the initial change of plans with Songbird being introduced, we were then expecting to be earning FLR long before July, then October and now what looks like January.

Our service doesn’t earn enough to cover our costs, or anywhere close to it for that matter. I’ll be looking at ways to further reduce costs today.

As a team, we’re all in on this project, I have no choice but to try and ride it out.

I’m genuinely sorry to hear that. I am still optimistic that flare will be successful, I hope you can hang in there.

[panmores]

I doubt that the whole airdrop proposal is workable. Flare wants all participating exchanges to get in line. Now imagine, a hundred or so exchanges, of course there's no 100% surety. Or course you can't eliminate airdrop problems. There is no way, even with the most perfect planning, that all tokens will be properly distributed within the 2-week timeframe.

The airdrop should proceed. Most likely some big players like Coinbase, Kraken et al are not too forthcoming. If the airdrop proceeds, then without a 100% exchange participation. Otherwise, again, it's a phantom.

 

[ftso_au]

12 hours ago, ****** said:

Maybe that's an alternative path you could consider?

Honestly, not a huge fan of creating a token for the sake of it. I'm not sure if any of those tokens have any actual utility, so not casting shade on the ones you mentioned. I have no doubt it puts money into the projects pocket though and something shiny in the wallets of those who participate.

Here's one example of the value we provide, that goes largely unnoticed, and.most certainly unrewarded. Here's the list of publicly available nodes, that's not a lot is it? I've seen a few others pop up recently, but we've been running this since well before epoch 1.

We receive 2 MILLION hits a day on this public RPC endpoint, which many people use when interacting with MetaMask, often on our delegation app and most of the time, to delegate to providers other than us.

We don't have to do it, we choose too, but because it doesn't appear in the delegators wallet (although it powers it!) it's deemed as nothing.

10 hours ago, Seoulite said:

I’m genuinely sorry to hear that. I am still optimistic that flare will be successful, I hope you can hang in there.

Thanks, we'll find a way. We still believe and we know there's brighter days ahead!

[jbjnr]

10 hours ago, Seoulite said:

I am still optimistic that flare will be successful, I hope you can hang in there.

When flare started out, they claimed that you'd be able to stake your FLR to an FTSO provider whilst also earning from a reward-pool for minting F-assets and at the same time earn rewards from a yield farm - it was clear that they didn't understand the technology they were building.

They created an F-Asset model that "frees up all the locked liquidity" on other blockchains, but in order to free up that liquidity, you need to pay someone to collaterize it with 2.5x the amount your freeing up. It's clear that they didn't understand economics.

They ditched their network release plan and instead went with a canary network because they it was clear that they didn't initially understand how much work it was going to take to get things running safely.

They replaced their "unlock liquidity" on all blockchains plan, with "connect everything" using layercake and changed fairly significantly their entire business model/plan - it was clear that they didn't really know what they were doing initially.

They ditched their distribution plan and have replaced it with one which favours supporting the price by forcing people to lock their tokens up in order to receive what they had originally "promised" (yes, I know, no contract, no promise...). It is clear that they are making it all up as they go along.

If there's nothing of value on the network, then the network will have no value. Look no further than songbird to verify this.

"Are the delays damaging to Flare?"

They don't really have any credibility anyway, so no. They can do what they want and it doesn't really change anything.

[WrathofKahneman]

It's a small matter at this point, but initially the XRP community was a central part of the FLR start-up claim to unlock value for chains without smart contracts. The roll out has taken so long that there is now a functioning EVM sidechain for XRP.  Now the XRPL won't need FLR for defi, smart contracts, etc., and it may not be the first to offer it.  Marketing aside, I guess it means everything is riding on just how innovative the FTSO really is.

[panmores]