Ripple no longer an investor on Flare Network

[Gringo]

This is from the official Flare Network telegram channel ( t.me/FlareNetwork ) Yesterday "Tom T" (part of Flare Team) on Telegram had an interesting conversation with  a telegram user (will transcript, can't manage to snapshot):

*******************************
O: "How far is ripple xrp and dev team involved in the making of flr network"

Tom T: "Zero"

O: "Has there ever been communication between flare and ripple"

Tom T: "Ripple was an early investor in Flare. Outside of that, not really...other than friendly discussions at events/gatherings etc."

O: "So ripple has full knowledge of what and when things are happening I assume, if they payed they have the right to know everything whats going on"

Tom T: "Nope. The early investment relationship has concluded"

*******************************

This came to a surprise (at least for me). Last year Flare Network raised $11.3 m ( https://decrypt.co/73008/flare-network-raises-11-3m-in-funding-round-with-kenetic-dcg ) with the participation of Kenetic Capital, Coinfund, Digital Currency Group, LD Capital, cFund, Wave Financial, Borderless Capital, Backend Capital, Charlie Lee (Litecoin) and Do Kwan (Terra-Luna).

So with Do Kwan onboard and Ripple offboard there is a better explanation of:

* SGB's price collapse (Do Kwan "effect")

* Flare Network shifting from "providing XRP with smart contracts" to "providing any 1st gen cripto with smart contracts"

* The constant bashing of Flare Network social network team towards the XRP Community and the 85% reduction of the airdrop to the community.

Did they use some of the newly raised capital to pay Ripple or did they just sell SGB for cash? Who knows.

 

What did Ripple achieve in order to add value for XRP with this (now concluded) investment? 

 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, ****** said:

This is from the official Flare Network telegram channel ( t.me/FlareNetwork ) Yesterday "Tom T" (part of Flare Team) on Telegram had an interesting conversation with  a telegram user (will transcript, can't manage to snapshot):

*******************************
O: "How far is ripple xrp and dev team involved in the making of flr network"

Tom T: "Zero"

O: "Has there ever been communication between flare and ripple"

Tom T: "Ripple was an early investor in Flare. Outside of that, not really...other than friendly discussions at events/gatherings etc."

O: "So ripple has full knowledge of what and when things are happening I assume, if they payed they have the right to know everything whats going on"

Tom T: "Nope. The early investment relationship has concluded"

*******************************

This came to a surprise (at least for me). Last year Flare Network raised $11.3 m ( https://decrypt.co/73008/flare-network-raises-11-3m-in-funding-round-with-kenetic-dcg ) with the participation of Kenetic Capital, Coinfund, Digital Currency Group, LD Capital, cFund, Wave Financial, Borderless Capital, Backend Capital, Charlie Lee (Litecoin) and Do Kwan (Terra-Luna).

So with Do Kwan onboard and Ripple offboard there is a better explanation of:

* SGB's price collapse (Do Kwan "effect")

* Flare Network shifting from "providing XRP with smart contracts" to "providing any 1st gen cripto with smart contracts"

* The constant bashing of Flare Network social network team towards the XRP Community and the 85% reduction of the airdrop to the community.

Did they use some of the newly raised capital to pay Ripple or did they just sell SGB for cash? Who knows.

 

What did Ripple achieve in order to add value for XRP with this (now concluded) investment? 

 

They may not have achieved anything specific. It must have just been an Angel investment of sorts. Algo, whoever else invested later must have bought back Ripple’s stake. 

[Gringo]

At first I thought it was only me who didn't know that Ripple is out of Flare Network as an investor, but it seems it is a fact not widely known.

The casual chat from Tom T looks like the frist official statement on the matter. Maybe Ripple is no longer a Flare Network investor since a week ago or since a year ago, I wish I knew.

Quote

whoever else invested later must have bought back Ripple’s stake. 

Most probably. Anyway SGB's price tanked, so some heavy wallets with SGB got out as well.

I have the same feeling with Ripple's Moneygram investment. They seem to do some very good early investment moves but then don't hold and eventually turn into their competition.

I really can't stand Hugo's arrogant attitude bashing the XRP community but now I understand why they are acting like that.

[WarChest]

6 hours ago, ****** said:

I really can't stand Hugo's arrogant attitude bashing the XRP community but now I understand why they are acting like that.

Why?

[Gringo]

Quote

Why?

 Money talks. If Ripple is OUT of Flare it means there is something they don't liked about the direction of the project. 

Also Hugo or Flare as a team have less incentives now to appeal to the XRP Community. Actually the "proposal" is to take out 85% from the XRP-Airdrop pool and "recycle" as an incentive for NEW participants (instead of using Flare's FLR for that).

Since Ripple is no longer a Flare stakeholder, there is no insider to protest that move. 

They are actively pushing the "XRP Airdrop holders are freeriders" narrative, when they themselves were the recipients of Ripple's money when this entire Flare act was just an idea on paper.

 

[BillyOckham]

55 minutes ago, ****** said:

If Ripple is OUT of Flare it means there is something they don't liked about the direction of the project. 

You are the master of conclusion drawing.  
 

Are you absolutely sure that’s the only possible conclusion?  If I could think of another possible reason would that undermine your confidence in your view?

(I already know the answer….  No.   Because once drawn,  your conclusions never need reconsidering…)

 

[Gringo]

Of course not, but Ripple got out a Flare and we "peasants" didn't know about that, only insiders.

I had NO explanation for the shift of the project from XRP-Centric to non-XRP-Centric. And I had NO explanation for the increased hostility of Flare Team towards the XRP Community.

Now I have a plausible explanation for their behaivior.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Gringo

[BillyOckham]

2 hours ago, ****** said:

Of course not, but Ripple got out a Flare and we "peasants" didn't know about that, only insiders.

I had NO explanation for the shift of the project from XRP-Centric to non-XRP-Centric. And I had NO explanation for the increased hostility of Flare Team towards the XRP Community.

Now I have a plausible explanation for their behaivior.

Thanks for that.  A sensible and reasonable explanation for why you have that view.

You follow all this much more closely than I do,  so I’ve not seen all the hostility that you refer to.  I am not doubting your experience of it, but would like to see some for myself to get a sense of how strong it is.

I’m not a fan of all of Hugo’s messaging or some of his earlier statements so would like to see if they are now more antagonistic than I was aware of.

Do you have any quotes or links?  I’m not on telegram or discord and won’t be going there,  so any quotes or links would be appreciated.

I realise that you and I have disagreed on stuff,  but I value discussion and logic without personal attacks,  so appreciate you placing your views here for the rest of us to consider.  

I think my previous post was fractionally straying into attacking your nature rather than your argument so I apologise for that.  I thought that it needed to be said that other explanations could exist rather than the one you ascribed,  but there was no need for me to say anything beyond that fact.

Anyway,  if you can show any quotes that highlight this animosity from Flare towards the XRP community I (and probably others) would appreciate seeing it.

 

 

[Gringo]

Quote

Do you have any quotes or links?  I’m not on telegram or discord and won’t be going there,  so any quotes or links would be appreciated.

I'm not closely following all their social networks either, just following twitter, telegram and discord not so much. That's why I'm not 100% sure the "Ripple is no longer an investor" was a "breaking news" from them on Telegram or not (but for me personally it was).

To perceive (or not) said hostility towards the XRP-Community you should interact with their social networks, else I can't quote you anything more than the "2020 XRP airdrop beneficiaries are free-riders" messages. I really would recommend you to just read their social networks.

I am actually thinking on posting here an "alternative proposal" that would contradict the "we are doing this proposal to neutralize the free-riders that will sell FLR the minute their receive the airdrop the same way they did with SGB" but wont redirect the airdrop pool to new participants and see how they react towards a community proposal...

 

[Guest]

@******my post here isn’t about your conclusion. I wanted to point out that you are, perhaps unintentionally, presenting part of the Gary Gensler view of crypto. You are expecting specific disclosures from private companies that have no obligation to you, because you feel that they do have that obligation.

That technically would imply an implicit sale of investment contract and an expectation of profit per SEC’s current theory in courts. 

I personally don’t think there is any disclosure obligation in today’s law but I do agree that there should be some level of disclosure on certain kind of relationships and how they might drive network development.

For example, if investment from Algo or Litecoin is the reason to expand the scope or if Ripple withdrew their investment because they are proposing an EVM side chain anyway - it would be valuable for network participants.

But whether that should be law vs something that should be left to the network to figure out for itself through participation is the question, I guess. 

[Gringo]

5 years ago Ripple wanted to privilege a simple set of functions for XRP that translates into a faster performance (a greater TPS). The F-XRP idea to manage smart contracts and DEFI for XRP but on a separate chain was the reason for Ripple to invest on Flare Networks. Now they finished the investor relationship with Flare.

On the other hand the XLS-20 and the AMM features for the XRPL will provide those kind of functions. For some reason the added features will not significantly impact the performance of the network or Ripple now consideres the impact on the performance is not a concern now. 

 

[WarChest]

5 hours ago, Ripley said:

.

For example, if investment from Algo or Litecoin is the reason to expand the scope or if Ripple withdrew their investment because they are proposing an EVM side chain anyway - it would be valuable for network participants.

Maybe, just like Moneygram, the SEC case scared Flare from working closely with Ripple?

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, WarChest said:

Maybe, just like Moneygram, the SEC case scared Flare from working closely with Ripple?

I doubt Flare was scared. Flare isn’t a US business. But I suppose it’s possible Ripple ceased its investment post lawsuit.

The relationship could have also ended for other reasons. It may be that being a developer on XRPL and also to be involved with Flare might be a conflict of interest given the upcoming proposals on XRPL.

Or it could be that Flare sought out investments from various places and Ripple may have been an early investor to help support the team but probably didn’t want to explore that further once Flare got serious funding..

Or it could have just been a developer grant like with other developers, and Flare may not have opted for additional funding…

It’s all conjecture. We’ll never know, I guess, unless Flare or someone from Ripple tells us.

[BillyOckham]

7 minutes ago, Ripley said:

It’s all conjecture. We’ll never know, I guess, unless Flare or someone from Ripple tells us.

Absolutely true.  However, as we have seen in this thread,  people decide they know the reason and then build assessments based on that.

I’ve lost count of the number of times over the years I’ve seen people dead certain they know why something happened without any evidence beyond the nice fit into their paradigm.

 

[Gringo]

Quote

Maybe, just like Moneygram, the SEC case scared Flare from working closely with Ripple?

Flare Network is not under SECs scrutiny. Ripple just divested from Flare and of course if they are asked in public they would just reply with the usual business jargon.

Anyway this is a "Flare Club" BUT on a XRP forum. My focus (on this forum) is how Flare Network adds value to the XRP ecosystem. And of course with this "news" I don't think (from now on) there will be no special added value for XRP compared with say DOGEcoin or whatever.

The current situation: Do Kwon (the face of the Terra-Luna fiasco) is an investor on Flare and Ripple is not. On the other side, collusion activity involving xToadz FTSO has been discovered. xToadz CEO is very close to Hugo Philion. Allthough it is not the first time a group of FTSO's have been found colluding, this time the bullets are pretty close to Flare Network HQs.

Current SGB price is at USD 0.0205

It's like a series of "bad news" alltogether contributed to the current situation. Let's hope all of that is already "priced in" and from now on there is a more promising horizon. But sometimes projects surrounded with bad actors, never recover and perish.

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Gringo