Company and decentralization

[tulo]

I'm really having hard time finding information on the companies involved and the network status (two very different topics). Can anybody highlighten me?

In particular:

• Are the two companies "Flare Foundation" and "Flare Networks Limited" related somehow? What is Flare Foundation and what is Flare Networks Limited. What's their role.
• Why Flare Networks Limited has tons of SBG tokens? Where did they acquire them? XRP snapshot, bought or received from Flare Foundation?
• What is the decentralization status of Songbird? How many nodes? Who is running them? Any explorer for the status of the network?

[RambeauTeasebox]

 

[Offthegrid]

I do not know much about the entities you are mentioning. All I know is that the Flare Network recognize themselves as the Flare Networks (flare.xyz), which are soon  to be both the Songbird Finance and Flare Finance. As for the SGB, these entities hold, I would recon that they are probably possessed by the developers themselves.

Overall, I understand that SGB is decentralized, however those who created are still in play to work out any bugs in their nodes. If anyone reading this has better answers, please let us know.

[tulo]

2 minutes ago, Offthegrid said:

 which are soon  to be both the Songbird Finance and Flare Finance.

AFAIK Flare Finace is completely unrelated with Flare Foundation, Flare Netowrks and Hugo Philion.

[tulo]

Also do someone know which are the address of Flare Foundation and Flare Networks?
Everything seems so fishy to me. Hopefully it's only bad communication.

Edited January 2, 2022 by tulo

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, tulo said:

Also do someone know which are the address of Flare Foundation and Flare Networks?
Everything seems so fishy to me. Hopefully it's only bad communication.

A loose, though not perfect, analogy  

Flare Foundation = Ethereum Foundation/XRPL Foundation

Flare Networks = ConsenSys/Ripple

Flare Networks is a for-profit business built on top of Flare. For example, Flare Networks will be the first Agent once the S-Asset/F-Asset system is enabled. You will be able to pay them a small fee and they will lock up their FLR as collateral to wrap your assets for you. This way you don’t need to be your own agent. And you get to keep both your SGB/FLR *and* your assets (XRP, ALGO, LTC, DOGE etc)

The Flare Foundation is a non-profit, intended to support the network itself, work with the community, etc. After the launch of MainNet, the community controls the Foundation and can dissolve it if there are sufficient votes.

The structure of Flare Foundation is detailed in section 6 of the whitepaper. 

A preview below - 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Ripley

[Offthegrid]

As far as I know, Hugo Philion is the current CEO of the Flare Networks. This is the official entity that governs the SGB coin and its tokens and also the soon to be Spark token. I am gathering that you are looking for a physical address, EINs, VATs, etc., of the organization(s). I have searched but found nothing. All I know i know is that if you want detailed info on SGB, FLR, or any other tokens, you will need to go to their official website. 

And yes, i agree with you. It sounds fishy

Edited January 2, 2022 by Offthegrid

[tulo]

2 minutes ago, Ripley said:

Flare Foundation = Ethereum Foundation/XRPL Foundation

Flare Networks = ConsenSys/Ripple

And how Flare Networks has lots of SGB?
Any public address (songbird wallet address) of the two entities?

[tulo]

Quote

Reporting. Transparency is key. The foundation will issue a report every six months detailing the following: sales of
Spark tokens, employee remuneration, expenses and other use of funds, investments and grants.

Any link to their reports (if any)?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, tulo said:

Any link to their reports (if any)?

The Flare network hasn’t launched yet. And it hasn’t been 6 months since Songbird launched.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, tulo said:

And how Flare Networks has lots of SGB?
Any public address (songbird wallet address) of the two entities?

Here is an illustration of the distribution. Details should be in the paper.

 

Note: this changed since then to accommodate DOGE etc. That came from the foundation reserves I think

Edit: Some references here - https://www.thedefistandard.com/posts/flare-networks-spark-flr-token-distribution/

Edited January 2, 2022 by Ripley

[PunishmentOfLuxury]

Flare Networks Ltd (a for-profit entity) granted themselves 25% of all the Spark tokens for being the founders of the network. I posted about it months ago, thinking it might be controversial considering the hullabaloo over the XRPL founders' allocations. It seems no one was interested - dollar signs in their eyes blinded them, perhaps.

[Seoulite]

As I understand it, the Flare Foundation will act in the interest of the network, although we don’t know who will compromise the foundation yet. Also as Ripley said a key point is that the Foundation could be dissolved by community vote if it became a bad actor in the system.

Flare Networks Ltd is the company that the founders will establish. This company will not control the network, and will simply be another actor on the network.

I get that people don’t like big entities in a system, but I don’t begrudge people taking a chunk of what they build. Also big fish in any system are inevitable. If it wasn’t flare networks ltd, it would be some whales of some kind. 

As for fishy, flare has a number of aspects that prove to me at least that it is legit. The massive support of the airdrop (are all these exchanges in on the scam?) the massive funding round in flare ltd from the biggest names in crypto VC (have they all been fooled?), etc. I dunno, if Flare is not legit then few things in crypto are, including btc with its mysterious founder who holds massive bags.

[lizshadehdg]

And who is taking control of flare foundation? Who made the decision to burn the exfi the flare foundation will receive?  Who made the decision that flare foundation cannot delegate to FTSOs? Can Hugo Philion decide what to do the fund of this foundation?

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, lizshadehdg said:

And who is taking control of flare foundation? Who made the decision to burn the exfi the flare foundation will receive?  Who made the decision that flare foundation cannot delegate to FTSOs? Can Hugo Philion decide what to do the fund of this foundation?

Until governance is enabled on Songbird, Flare Networks (Hugo) makes the decisions. 

After that, if the Foundation does something the community doesn’t like, the community can dissolve it. 

The choice of what power Flare Foundation should and shouldn’t have is a proposal from Flare. It’s part of building trust with the community on explaining what kind of network they want to help support. Think of it as an anthem or constitution. It’s a public blockchain so there’s no way to cheat of course.

It is not Flare Foundation’s fault that it was counted in the snapshot. Flare is not affiliated with Flare Finance. The choice to burn was likely Hugo’s to make.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Ripley