SGB Reward Rate - what it means

[PunishmentOfLuxury]

This is from FTSO.AU: Vote Delegation Reward Rate Explained 

Quote

One number everyone’s talking about is the “Reward Rate” - It’s a number that needs further explanation.

If you’re not familiar with it, it’s here on FlareMetrics, along with a growing list of metrics used to track signal providers performance on the Songbird network.

So what is it? It’s a ratio used to calculate how many tokens you’ll receive per 100 delegated.

Why is it displaying lower than last epoch? The Reward Rate resets each epoch, as the variables that are used to calculate it have changed.

When the voting delegation lock occurs, a snapshot of your token balance is taken, along with the signal providers you’ve selected and the percentage in which you’ve delegated to each.

This is now known by the network and stored for later use, when it comes time to allocate your rewards.

This snapshot also provides us with the signal providers’ total vote power (all delegators votes combined) for that epoch.

I think this still isn't clear enough. Let me offer an analogy: There's a tall, cylindrical, glass container for each signal provider. At the start of each epoch the container is empty. Every four minutes, a small volume of water is added to the container in proportion to the voting power that the FTSO has, but only if it is one of the winners of that four minute voting round. If the FTSO doesn't win that round, the level of water stays the same. Over the hours, the water level in most of the containers is likely to rise as most of the FTSOs win rounds at least occasionally. The Reward Rate that you see on Flaremetrics.io is the level of water in each container, not the rate at which the level is increasing (though the latter could be derived from the changes in level if one wished). The levels always increase over the week, quickly or slowly depending on the success and the voting power of the signal provider. Only at the end of the epoch can the reward rate per week for each FTSO be seen. Then the containers are all emptied and the filling process starts again for the next epoch.

[Seoulite]

Excellent analogy mate!

[Seoulite]

My favorite pastime is now checking my rewards…. 

[JASCoder]

5 hours ago, Seoulite said:

My favorite pastime is now checking my rewards…. 

Hmm - Defi Oracles better get their algorithm tuned better, they're being left in the dust :-/ 
( currently showing Reward Rate of 0.087 to top's 0.797 )  

[brianwalden]

10 minutes ago, JASCoder said:

Hmm - Defi Oracles better get their algorithm tuned better, they're being left in the dust :-/ 
( currently showing Reward Rate of 0.087 to top's 0.797 )  

Well, they're beating my index 😅😬

[Seoulite]

39 minutes ago, JASCoder said:

Hmm - Defi Oracles better get their algorithm tuned better, they're being left in the dust :-/ 
( currently showing Reward Rate of 0.087 to top's 0.797 )  

Yeah something has really gone wrong there. For the most part the distance between providers has closed up but Defi Oracles are having a bad time.

[JASCoder]

5 minutes ago, Seoulite said:

Yeah something has really gone wrong there. For the most part the distance between providers has closed up but Defi Oracles are having a bad time.

IIRC somewhere they wrote their solution was going with a homebrew approach, rather that sourcing the more popular feed most everyone else is using...  

Hopefully they can find a solution that both is cost effective and competitive.

[brianwalden]

15 minutes ago, JASCoder said:

IIRC somewhere they wrote their solution was going with a homebrew approach, rather that sourcing the more popular feed most everyone else is using...  

Hopefully they can find a solution that both is cost effective and competitive.

If everyone is cribbing off the same sheet and just tweaking it a bit to try to get an edge, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Philosophically you want everyone to calculate their prices in their own unique ways.

[jbjnr]

8 minutes ago, brianwalden said:

If everyone is cribbing off the same sheet and just tweaking it a bit to try to get an edge, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Philosophically you want everyone to calculate their prices in their own unique ways.

We predicted this.

[ftso_au]

14 hours ago, PunishmentOfLuxury said:

I think this still isn't clear enough.

I’ll revisit this post today and add some more information, to make it clearer.

[Seoulite]

3 hours ago, brianwalden said:

If everyone is cribbing off the same sheet and just tweaking it a bit to try to get an edge, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Philosophically you want everyone to calculate their prices in their own unique ways.

Presumably if bigger providers and exchanges start to join then this will become less of a problem.

But is it such a big issue I wonder? If every provider is basically copying from the binance website, is it an issue? The binance price feed is good enough for billions of dollars of trade every day. Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel?

[BillyOckham]

39 minutes ago, Seoulite said:

Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel?

Yes that’s the question I’ve been wondering for a while now.  This whole convoluted structure doesn’t really make sense when a simple index of reliable existing price feed APIs can achieve the same thing.

 

I think the real reason is to create some tokenomics attractors to the network.

On the wide variance on reward rates….   that is worrying to me.  It really opens the possibility of drifting to non ‘true’ prices simply to converge on the leadership.

Eg low reward providers notice that the leaders are always .05% higher than them,  so they simply add .05% to their own estimates to land in the reward sweet spot.   This has the potential to drift further and further from the real price as positive feedback loops veer everyone off course.

I could be wrong, I would like to be wrong.  I wonder what other networks do and use.  I know next to nothing about non XRP chains.

 

[ftso_au]

19 hours ago, PunishmentOfLuxury said:

This is from FTSO.AU: Vote Delegation Reward Rate Explained 

I think this still isn't clear enough. Let me offer an analogy: There's a tall, cylindrical, glass container for each signal provider. At the start of each epoch the container is empty. Every four minutes, a small volume of water is added to the container in proportion to the voting power that the FTSO has, but only if it is one of the winners of that four minute voting round. If the FTSO doesn't win that round, the level of water stays the same. Over the hours, the water level in most of the containers is likely to rise as most of the FTSOs win rounds at least occasionally. The Reward Rate that you see on Flaremetrics.io is the level of water in each container, not the rate at which the level is increasing (though the latter could be derived from the changes in level if one wished). The levels always increase over the week, quickly or slowly depending on the success and the voting power of the signal provider. Only at the end of the epoch can the reward rate per week for each FTSO be seen. Then the containers are all emptied and the filling process starts again for the next epoch.

I'm struggling to improve on this, I've added it as is to the post. Tremendous analogy and I'm sure it will make things that bit clearer again for the community. Tip of the hat to you. 

[BillyOckham]

1 hour ago, FTSO_AU said:

I'm struggling to improve on this, I've added it as is to the post. Tremendous analogy and I'm sure it will make things that bit clearer again for the community. Tip of the hat to you. 

Ok can I ask some specifics then?

Say the winning price is one dollar.  Two providers nominated exactly that. They will be rewarded.  Another provider said one dollar and a thousandth of a cent.  I’m assuming they are rewarded too.  (It can’t be only the exact price wins??)

So now we have a selected price and a margin either side of it that will be rewarded.  My guess is that the margin is dynamic.  As more and more providers get close in to the selected price the margin tightens.

 

Any of that wrong?

What is the current margin on XRP/USD?   Does the margin change?

How many providers are being rewarded?  Does it vary much?

How is the margin determined?

Is there a limit to winners?  If all said exactly the same price would all win?

 

If you know and can say that would be great.  If you know and can’t say then I’m surprised since it’s not like this should be shrouded in secrecy.

Anyway…  I will appreciate anything you can share.

 

[PunishmentOfLuxury]

44 minutes ago, BillyOckham said:

Ok can I ask some specifics then?

Say the winning price is one dollar.  Two providers nominated exactly that. They will be rewarded.  Another provider said one dollar and a thousandth of a cent.  I’m assuming they are rewarded too.  (It can’t be only the exact price wins??)

So now we have a selected price and a margin either side of it that will be rewarded.  My guess is that the margin is dynamic.  As more and more providers get close in to the selected price the margin tightens.

 

Any of that wrong?

What is the current margin on XRP/USD?   Does the margin change?

How many providers are being rewarded?  Does it vary much?

How is the margin determined?

Is there a limit to winners?  If all said exactly the same price would all win?

 

If you know and can say that would be great.  If you know and can’t say then I’m surprised since it’s not like this should be shrouded in secrecy.

Anyway…  I will appreciate anything you can share.

 

This is from May '21 but I think the process is the same. The highest 25% and lowest 25% of FTSO price estimates are discarded and those in the middle win the round.