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4 minutes ago, thewaker said:

If I am not selling my SGB at least for this month there is no reason why I shouldn’t send it all from  metamask to Bifrost amd delegate 95% of it right?  

Just to point out, your SGB isn't "in" metamask, nor would it be "in" the Bifrost app either.

Both these apps are tools to access the Songbird network, where our SGB actually resides. 

You can simply delegate your tokens to oracles from a web page (you trust) which will use your metamask plugin app to facilitate the transactions. Or your can import your Songbird access info into the Bifrost app and use their UI. 

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2 hours ago, BillyOckham said:

I understand where you are coming from but I think you make a mistake when you say “there should be not as much value assigned”.

You or I are not the cosmic valuers.  Value,  like beauty,  is in the eye of the beholder.  The market thinks they have promise, or it thinks the triangles point up, or it thinks that there are bunch of greater fools coming along in a moment.

My argument was that people who say it comes out of thin air or out of nothing are missing the fact that it does not.  Without a lot of effort or skill it doesn’t have any value at all.  What that value is however,  is in the eye of the beholder and the invisible hand of the market.

With respect sir, anyone saying it shouldn’t be worth this or that,  is just another in a long line of economists and traders bemused and surprised by the market doing the opposite of what they predicted.

 

I can agree with this post that value is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes (almost always!) the market is not rational and I feel this is one of those times. 

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2 minutes ago, princesultan said:

I can agree with this post that value is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes (almost always!) the market is not rational and I feel this is one of those times. 

I agree with every word you said.  But I disagree with how you feel about it.  You think it’s not a rational price, whereas I think it’s actually lower than a rational valuation.

Neither of us are cosmic valuers so it’s just our opinions.

I think it’s worth more than now because it’s potential is enormous.  If you consider that it has the capability to bring smart contracts to XRP, LTC, Doge and later on, other ‘dumb’ coins,  then that is a huge amount of value.

Add in the rewards for holding, the coming second layer finance apps….  I think it’s entirely possible that this is massively undervalued.

I expect a flurry of dumps as exchanges list it and allow people who don’t share my opinion to grab their short term free money.  But I also expect a good rise afterwards as real utility begins to show up.  It hasn’t happened yet for my XRP (but I think it will in future,) but it shortly might happen for Songbird/Flare.

 

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I should also add that Flare may well steal a lot of Etherium’s lunch.  There are already NFT and game devs saying that fees are killing them and at least one is hoping on Flare as soon as possible.

That is a huge amount of potential value and utility.  I think there is an inherent bias against ‘free’ things.   
 

There are anecdotes about people not being able to give things away when free,  and the item only being snapped up when they put a small amount on it as a price.  There is a human bias that says “free can’t be worth anything”.  It’s not logical because there ARE times that you get something for nothing.  The sayings are only correct in most  cases.

 

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6 minutes ago, BillyOckham said:

I should also add that Flare may well steal a lot of Etherium’s lunch.  There are already NFT and game devs saying that fees are killing them and at least one is hoping on Flare as soon as possible.

That is a huge amount of potential value and utility.  I think there is an inherent bias against ‘free’ things.   
 

There are anecdotes about people not being able to give things away when free,  and the item only being snapped up when they put a small amount on it as a price.  There is a human bias that says “free can’t be worth anything”.  It’s not logical because there ARE times that you get something for nothing.  The sayings are only correct in most  cases.

 

I hope you’re right

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9 hours ago, princesultan said:

And the fact that there are multiple airdrops and airdrops on airdrops, it feels ponzi-ish.

To add a little to this discussion: there are only two Flare airdrops, Songbird and Flare. The snapshot for these was done way back in December last year. Any other airdrops, like those coming from Flare Finance, are not coming from Flare itself. Flare is not releasing loads of new airdrops as incentives. They had the original one. They then added the canary network. None of these required anyone to put in any extra money. 

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1 hour ago, Seoulite said:

To add a little to this discussion: there are only two Flare airdrops, Songbird and Flare. The snapshot for these was done way back in December last year. Any other airdrops, like those coming from Flare Finance, are not coming from Flare itself. Flare is not releasing loads of new airdrops as incentives. They had the original one. They then added the canary network. None of these required anyone to put in any extra money. 

What about the exfi airdrop for songbird holders?

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3 hours ago, JASCoder said:

Both the oracles you mention were on the list of options on this site's page

https://app.ftso.com.au/delegate 

so, i just connect my metamask to ftso.au website and choose delegation providers from it?! like Scandinodes or Bifrost?! and my WSGB actually stays in my Metamask wallet for SFLR airdrop (whatever they call it now -EXFI?!) and all is good?!

I just have to trust that ftso.au will not corrupt my metamask wallet or steal my secret or anything?!

 

But its the same issue with Bifrost wallet/app  or any other wallet or exchange or whatever I guess>?! :mail1:

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1 hour ago, joe91 said:

so, i just connect my metamask to ftso.au website and choose delegation providers from it?! like Scandinodes or Bifrost?! and my WSGB actually stays in my Metamask wallet for SFLR airdrop (whatever they call it now -EXFI?!) and all is good?!

I just have to trust that ftso.au will not corrupt my metamask wallet or steal my secret or anything?!

But its the same issue with Bifrost wallet/app  or any other wallet or exchange or whatever I guess>?! :mail1:

You've got the essence of it, in true it's all a bit more nuanced tho. 

Again, your tokens aren't "in" the MM plugin, no more than your you Facebook app is holding all your pics, posts, and movies. The content (your tokens) are on the Songbird network. MM is just an interface to perform transactions with your account on the Songbird network. 

Your trust is actually in the MM plugin app, not the website. The code on the website's pages cannot acquire your secret key from the MM app (we assume) - this is a security design feature. 

And yes, you'd be trusting the owners of the Bifrost app too, which AFAIK is not open sourced. 

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1 hour ago, princesultan said:

What about the exfi airdrop for songbird holders?

As Billy said ExFi is flare finance. The name is misleading because they are not part of the flare team, they are simply building on top of the Flare network. You don’t need to interact with Flare Finance in any way to use the flare network.

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14 minutes ago, JASCoder said:

You've got the essence of it, in true it's all a bit more nuanced tho. 

Again, your tokens aren't "in" the MM plugin, no more than your you Facebook app is holding all your pics, posts, and movies. The content (your tokens) are on the Songbird network. MM is just an interface to perform transactions with your account on the Songbird network. 

Your trust is actually in the MM plugin app, not the website. The code on the website's pages cannot acquire your secret key from the MM app (we assume) - this is a security design feature. 

And yes, you'd be trusting the owners of the Bifrost app too, which AFAIK is not open sourced. 

Thank You for a thorough explanation!

 

One more question I have, can I use MM phone app to connect to ftso.au and choose signal providers to delegate to or its only through google MM plugin for now.....:JC_thinking:

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1 hour ago, joe91 said:

Thank You for a thorough explanation!

 

One more question I have, can I use MM phone app to connect to ftso.au and choose signal providers to delegate to or its only through google MM plugin for now.....:JC_thinking:

I answer my own question! MM phone app works great; went to ftso.au and delegated in seconds (you can choose any signal provider you want from their list!)

Thank You FTSO.AU - really user friendly site/app to use!!!

 

:drinks:

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On 10/6/2021 at 12:15 AM, BillyOckham said:

I should also add that Flare may well steal a lot of Etherium’s lunch.  There are already NFT and game devs saying that fees are killing them and at least one is hoping on Flare as soon as possible.

That is a huge amount of potential value and utility.  I think there is an inherent bias against ‘free’ things.   
 

There are anecdotes about people not being able to give things away when free,  and the item only being snapped up when they put a small amount on it as a price.  There is a human bias that says “free can’t be worth anything”.  It’s not logical because there ARE times that you get something for nothing.  The sayings are only correct in most  cases.

 

Well said and so true 👍

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On 10/4/2021 at 8:49 PM, tulo said:

There are around 332M SGB "staked" in FTSO right now. I don't think 115M of them come from Bitstamp itself.

You could be right on that one. But still there is a ‘cloud of darkness’ around this subject and Bitstamp is not clearing it up. I find the behavior of the exchange very disturbing.

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