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Earning rewards through Songbird (coming very soon)


Seoulite
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10 hours ago, Seoulite said:

You can now delegate your SGB to an FTSO signal provider, and it seems like the rewards are likely to come online pretty soon (remember the network is still in observation mode until the 27th). This means you will be wanting to delegate your SGB to get those sweet rewards. 

(NB If all this stuff like FTSO and signal provider is unknown to you then feel free to come by the flare discussion group, we have some info and knowledgeable people who will easily answer your questions)

This website has a list of signal providers and how much is currently delegated to them, fees, etc. This is very similar to any other PoS network if you have used that.

https://flaremetrics.io/ftso

At the moment, because there are no rewards, it is impossible to say which signal provider is 'better' or will get you more rewards. That remains to be seen. Having said that, I do want to put in a plug for @FTSO_AU. They have been engaged on this board in the Flare Discussion Group with us from the beginning, answering questions, giving us some info about what's happening on the backend, and in general being very supportive of us on this forum. I don't want to be a shill and I'm sure it is not encouraged at all here, but I think given that FTSO AU has been an active contributor to this forum I think it's OK to say thanks and encourage others to say thanks too. I personally have FTSO AU on my list of signal providers that I am currently delegating to, they are 3rd on the list so a fair number of other people are making the same choice. 

Anyway as I said at this moment right now it doesn't really matter who you delegate to, but nonetheless I like to be generous to people who have been generous to us.

 

Reply by SGB-community... 10% goes to those who delegate... If only 3% of the 15billion SGB is delegated, 450mio SGB, wld it mean that 1.5billion SGB will be rewarded to the 450mio delegated SGB or per delegated SGB, 3.33SGB....Correct?

Edited by Live4xrp
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@FTSO_AU can you share any info on how much is the estimated transactions cost in a year to be an oracle?

How often do you send the price feed? And to which pairs? Is it 2 transactions per price feed right?

For example: price feed every 5 seconds to 10 pairs would result in 126.144.000 transactions a year, which is a cost of around 31.536.000 SGB (considering 0.25 SGB per transaction as it seem). 
It doesn't seem a nice business, since if you consider 1.5B SGB reward per year, divided by the number of oracles (let's say 10 and with the same reward each), it's 150M reward. If you take the 20% commission that's 30M SGB, less than the pure transactions costs. What am I doing wrong? Is the price feed less often?

EDIT: this estimation is wrong. See the following discussion.

Edited by tulo
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44 minutes ago, Jussi said:

Quite annoying that bitstamp where I had my XRP at the drop time is yet to give indication when we might get it SGB's - now we're in limbo unable to do anything

Bitstamp have been good. Replied to all my emails in good time and blogged when necessary.

 

https://blog.bitstamp.net/post/songbird-sgb-distribution

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13 minutes ago, tulo said:

@FTSO_AU can you share any info on how much is the estimated transactions cost in a year to be an oracle?

How often do you send the price feed? And to which pairs? Is it 2 transactions per price feed right?

For example: price feed every 5 seconds to 10 pairs would result in 126.144.000 transactions a year, which is a cost of around 31.536.000 SGB (considering 0.25 SGB per transaction as it seem). 
It doesn't seem a nice business, since if you consider 1.5B SGB reward per year, divided by the number of oracles (let's say 10 and with the same reward each), it's 150M reward. If you take the 20% commission that's 30M SGB, less than the pure transactions costs. What am I doing wrong? Is the price feed less often?

Where did you get the fee estimate from?  Looks like a couple of orders of magnitude too high to me?

 

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9 minutes ago, tulo said:

@FTSO_AU can you share any info on how much is the estimated transactions cost in a year to be an oracle?

How often do you send the price feed? And to which pairs? Is it 2 transactions per price feed right?

For example: price feed every 5 seconds to 10 pairs would result in 126.144.000 transactions a year, which is a cost of around 31.536.000 SGB (considering 0.25 SGB per transaction as it seem). 
It doesn't seem a nice business, since if you consider 1.5B SGB reward per year, divided by the number of oracles (let's say 10 and with the same reward each), it's 150M reward. If you take the 20% commission that's 30M SGB, less than the pure transactions costs. What am I doing wrong? Is the price feed less often?

This IMO is not very good because the FTSO are the heart of Flare and I see some options here:

  • The price feed will be much slower with the risk of not tracking the market and having options to exploit.
  • The oracles won't be very decentralized, since only a few business will have the numbers to be in positive gains.
  • The number of pairs will be very limited (less than 10) otherwise the costs will be higher than reward and no oracles will jump into the business
  • The transactions fees to interact with the contract will be reduced by at least 10 fold, but I don't know how much this is feasible.
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5 minutes ago, BillyOckham said:

Where did you get the fee estimate from?  Looks like a couple of orders of magnitude too high to me?

 

It seems that a single transaction can send the price feed for multiple pairs. I'm not so sure, but that would take out the number of pairs variable which is an order of magnitude of 10 which is way better.

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1 minute ago, tulo said:

Is that representative though?   It seems to have multiple (14) internal trans.  I’m not at all familiar with these and don’t know what they are or are doing.  But delegation transactions etc seem much cheaper.

So it’s unclear to me what a FTSO feed Tran would cost….   or is that what you’ve shown me?
 

(Btw perhaps not two orders of magnitude out…. maybe only one)

 

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6 minutes ago, BillyOckham said:

Is that representative though?   It seems to have multiple (14) internal trans.  I’m not at all familiar with these and don’t know what they are or are doing.  But delegation transactions etc seem much cheaper.

So it’s unclear to me what a FTSO feed Tran would cost….   or is that what you’ve shown me?
 

(Btw perhaps not two orders of magnitude out…. maybe only one)

 

That transaction is one of the two for price feed. First one is submitting the hash of the prices, second one the prices. They have more or less the same cost right now. Between 0.15 and 0.3 SGB at the moment. But I'm not expert and I wasn't able to find much documentation.

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5 minutes ago, tulo said:

That transaction is one of the two for price feed. First one is submitting the hash of the prices, second one the prices. They have more or less the same cost right now. Between 0.15 and 0.3 SGB at the moment. But I'm not expert and I wasn't able to find much documentation.

So the internal trans are prices for the pairs?  Which does reduce your estimate by at least a order of magnitude.

So the initial premise is wrong?

 

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1 minute ago, BillyOckham said:

Which does reduce your estimate by at least a order of magnitude.

Yes.

1 minute ago, BillyOckham said:

So the initial premise is wrong?

Yes. Probably there is still a linear cost related to the number of pairs of the price feed, but it's 2 transactions for a total of around 0.5 SGB for 10 pairs right now. An order of magnitude less of what I estimated. But I wait the experts ;).

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Just now, tulo said:

Yes.

Yes. Probably there is still a linear cost related to the number of pairs of the price feed, but it's 2 transactions for a total of around 0.5 SGB for 10 pairs right now. An order of magnitude less of what I estimated. But I wait the experts ;).


I realised after I posted that it might sound vindictive or celebratory….  absolutely not meant that way.

I salute your effort to examine the economics.  The law of unintended consequences is always lurking to bite our arse so forewarned is forearmed.  You are an excellent mind so I’m very glad you are interested in all this.

I will admit to being slightly concerned that the FTSO system does seem biased towards centralisation which is the opposite of desirable.

Interesting days ahead,  :JC_doubleup:

 

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47 minutes ago, BillyOckham said:

I salute your effort to examine the economics.  The law of unintended consequences is always lurking to bite our arse so forewarned is forearmed.

I have this "problem" of always trying to play the devil's advocate...but often it's for good causes :rolleyes:

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