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List of FTSO signal providers plus fees, voting power etc by Flare Metrics


Seoulite
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1 minute ago, Ripley said:

But here, you’re getting an NFT that you are agreeing to accept with an intent that it will grow in value. Why would anyone care about an NFT otherwise

Um,  I’m not sure I can agree.  An NFT is a thing.  It may be worth more or less in future.  It may or may not hold intrinsic value to the receiver.

What if they were giving out hand painted coffee mugs?  That’s has exactly the same properties as I mentioned.

Would that be a Security?


 

I really think it should be the case that if you see Security in these sorts of things then you are in need of a decontamination week at a spa to get the guild nonsense out of your head.   :) 

 

No offence intended…. I suspect you are more in tune with the actual legality than me and so, unfortunately in this legalistic and increasingly obtuse world, better equipped to deal with reality than me, an optimistic hopeful.   :) 

 

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Just now, BillyOckham said:

Um,  I’m not sure I can agree.  An NFT is a thing.  It may be worth more or less in future.  It may or may not hold intrinsic value to the receiver.

What if they were giving out hand painted coffee mugs?  That’s has exactly the same properties as I mentioned.

Would that be a Security?


 

I really think it should be the case that if you see Security in these sorts of things then you are in need of a decontamination week at a spa to get the guild nonsense out of your head.   :) 

 

No offence intended…. I suspect you are more in tune with the actual legality than me and so, unfortunately in this legalistic and increasingly obtuse world, better equipped to deal with reality than me, an optimistic hopeful.   :) 

 

No offence taken. We’re just having a conversation and I think it’s important to be careful here.  See the screenshot below. That’s an investment contract IMO.

image.thumb.png.33aaf762ae73575976537c517ecf1345.png

The current or future value of the NFT is immaterial. It only determines how much fines have to be paid. And why are they offering an NFT instead of a t-shirt or a mug ? Because the current market circumstances are such that people expect NFTs to go up in value. And that’s the difference. If they just did mugs, they would simply register them as gifts and pay taxes on them. Or write it off as marketing expenses. Remember how hard Ripple had to fight the objective vs subjective interpretation.

I wish you were right. 

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@Ripley Peel the onion even further. I don't know if giving away an NFT is a security. But FTSO rewards are a common pool of investors (all the people delegating their votes to a data provider) who profit primarily from the efforts of another party - the data provider who collects and submits price feeds.

FTSO voting is a security. Delegated proof of stake is a security. Most things that happen in DeFi are securities.

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10 minutes ago, brianwalden said:

@Ripley Peel the onion even further. I don't know if giving away an NFT is a security. But FTSO rewards are a common pool of investors (all the people delegating their votes to a data provider) who profit primarily from the efforts of another party - the data provider who collects and submits price feeds.

FTSO voting is a security. Delegated proof of stake is a security. Most things that happen in DeFi are securities.

I think the fact that the FTSO system has a utility (accurate price feeds) and that the reward system is completely decentralised might make it not a security. I could be wrong. I do trust that Flare did extensive legal analysis to be careful there, so I’m relying on that a bit. An individual FTSO attracting votes through gifts may have been okay I think but NFTs in the current market could be construed as securities. Again, I could be wrong but this whole tier based system to get more NFTs felt a bit off to me. Hope they don’t get into trouble.

Flare Finance is a bit more tricky. It has to be fully and completely decentralised for it to be okay. For example, Bitcoin is safe presumably because the distribution is decentralised. Flare Finance is hard to figure out because it has so many products. Some may be ok.

Probity/Trustline is easier. Poor Matt Rosendin abandoned Trustline lending for now, because it’s their (closed source) app and that makes providing lending on Trustline a security. But Probity is purely open source and decentralised. Matt and his cofounder don’t make a dime out of it, so it’s safe to generate and farm a yield there + lend your assets.

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I think both of you ( @Ripley and @brianwalden ) need at least a week in the decontamination spa.   :) 

The SEC have brainwashed you into seeing bogeymen everywhere.  :) 

The whole concept of “a security” is suspect in my opinion.  One of those things that used to make sense (maybe) in simpler times,  but is a hindrance rather than a help now.  
 

But I do accept that under the restrictive guild-of-rich-dudes rules that they currently use to strangle disrupters with,  these things might be considered securities by the brainwashed.  :) 

I will bow out now because I’m not adding value and I don’t really know what I am talking about. 
 

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Lets say there are 5 oracles that really make an awesome job, their fees are good, they are almost constantly within this 50% which wins the price from providing the "correct" prices. Lets also assume these oracles are already capped with the votes (1b votes each = 10% voting power each= 50% combined voting power from 5 top oracles).

What exactly can you do with rewarded FLR which you earn from delegating a vote? You can't compound it because the oracles are already full, and other oracles are not doing great which means there is no point to stack there? Does that mean that all FLR would need to be funneled in Flare finance so you can get at least something out of it?

Any thoughts on this? 

 

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1 hour ago, Kiwi said:

Lets say there are 5 oracles that really make an awesome job, their fees are good, they are almost constantly within this 50% which wins the price from providing the "correct" prices. Lets also assume these oracles are already capped with the votes (1b votes each = 10% voting power each= 50% combined voting power from 5 top oracles).

What exactly can you do with rewarded FLR which you earn from delegating a vote? You can't compound it because the oracles are already full, and other oracles are not doing great which means there is no point to stack there? Does that mean that all FLR would need to be funneled in Flare finance so you can get at least something out of it?

Any thoughts on this? 

 

Apparently they have 350 applications to become signal providers that they are working through. I think we don’t need to worry about there only being five places to delegate to.

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4 minutes ago, PunishmentOfLuxury said:

Thanks, working for me.

I had delegated to FTSO EU but they have been having trouble with their coffee and so the rewards are lower than the others. Bad start for them and will do them no favors with people’s first impression. I know I am much more likely to change who I’m delegating to next week because of this start.

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1 minute ago, Seoulite said:

I had delegated to FTSO EU but they have been having trouble with their coffee and so the rewards are lower than the others. Bad start for them and will do them no favors with people’s first impression. I know I am much more likely to change who I’m delegating to next week because of this start.

Yes, they seem to have done poorly in the first few rounds, but give them time. Eyeballing it, I'd say Bifrost is doing best.

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11 hours ago, BillyOckham said:

I think both of you ( @Ripley and @brianwalden ) need at least a week in the decontamination spa.   :) 

The SEC have brainwashed you into seeing bogeymen everywhere.  :) 

The whole concept of “a security” is suspect in my opinion.  One of those things that used to make sense (maybe) in simpler times,  but is a hindrance rather than a help now.  
 

But I do accept that under the restrictive guild-of-rich-dudes rules that they currently use to strangle disrupters with,  these things might be considered securities by the brainwashed.  :) 

I will bow out now because I’m not adding value and I don’t really know what I am talking about. 
 

It is suspect. This is all about totally made up American legal definitions. There's nothing inherently wrong about being a security, and most of the world doesn't treat them that way.

DeFi is a low-trust financial system that runs parallel to our high-trust traditional system. It is recreating traditional types of investments in its own way. I think it's dumb of us to pretend it's not. Better to rip the band-aid off and be honest about it. We're better off saying, "You're damn right these are securities and they're in an environment where they work and traditional regulations are only a hindrance. Come up with some new, sensible regulations for this space so everyone can benefit from it."

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5 hours ago, Kiwi said:

Lets say there are 5 oracles that really make an awesome job, their fees are good, they are almost constantly within this 50% which wins the price from providing the "correct" prices. Lets also assume these oracles are already capped with the votes (1b votes each = 10% voting power each= 50% combined voting power from 5 top oracles).

What exactly can you do with rewarded FLR which you earn from delegating a vote? You can't compound it because the oracles are already full, and other oracles are not doing great which means there is no point to stack there? Does that mean that all FLR would need to be funneled in Flare finance so you can get at least something out of it?

Any thoughts on this? 

 

I don't think it works that way. You can still vote for a provider if they're over the limit. But each vote a provider has gives more weight to the price they provide and also how big of a reward they win. If they're over the cap, that weight stops growing but I think the rewards that they win will still be divied up among all the votes. You'll earn less if they're over the limit, but it's not like everyone who votes once they're past the limit gets nothing.

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25 minutes ago, Seoulite said:

I had delegated to FTSO EU but they have been having trouble with their coffee and so the rewards are lower than the others. Bad start for them and will do them no favors with people’s first impression. I know I am much more likely to change who I’m delegating to next week because of this start.

 

22 minutes ago, PunishmentOfLuxury said:

Yes, they seem to have done poorly in the first few rounds, but give them time. Eyeballing it, I'd say Bifrost is doing best.

Seriously

Screenshot_20210925-084008.thumb.png.c92f9c4bf982654d1502e24df3223224.png

Is there a way to see the overall results without having to check individual wallets?

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6 hours ago, Seoulite said:

Apparently they have 350 applications to become signal providers that they are working through. I think we don’t need to worry about there only being five places to delegate to.

This sounds like exchanges are going to be providing price feeds. It makes sense, they're already collecting price feeds all day anyway to run their exchange. It allows them to earn money using the SGB and FLR that are just sitting in their vaults.

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