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List of FTSO signal providers plus fees, voting power etc by Flare Metrics


Seoulite
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1 hour ago, brianwalden said:

They're off the trading market for now, but they're not really locked. But yeah, I suspect that Songbird will have a proportionally low number of voters because unfortunately many people won't receive the airdrop, and it's just difficult - I would guess that the majority of people in crypto are just used to using exchanges and not DeFi. But that means that the rewards should be high, hopefully easily beating the 10% annual inflation. That will hopefully keep the holders holding and effectively remove their tokens from the circulating supply.

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the SGB/FLR tokens are safe and in your wallet, but cannot be used for another purpose, if you wrap them for delegation etc.

Some providers may let you farm/stake wrapped SGB/FLR tokens, but ultimately you can either have the originals or the wrapped ones, and not both.

Assuming this is true, then even when there is a tradable market, as long as users think that participating in the Flare ecosystem is more valuable, they will lock up their FLR. 

I also think a good amount of XRP is going to get locked up by Flare Networks, who said they will be an initial Agent. While there is nothing stopping an Agent from selling off their XRP, my guess is that at least initially, Flare won't sell any XRP. Eventually, I suspect they may want to be a market maker on the XRPL side of things.

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1 hour ago, Ripley said:

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the SGB/FLR tokens are safe and in your wallet, but cannot be used for another purpose, if you wrap them for delegation etc.

Some providers may let you farm/stake wrapped SGB/FLR tokens, but ultimately you can either have the originals or the wrapped ones, and not both.

I don't think this is true. It's the same as WETH or WBTC. When you wrap it, you're just making an ERC-20 coin that's pegged to the original coin. At that point you can do whatever you want with it and use it just like any other coin, or you can unwrap it whenever you want. For voting purposes, WSGB only counts toward your delegated vote if it's in your wallet. If you spend it, you no longer get the voting rewards. But if somebody sends you 1000 WSGB, you'll now have 1000 more votes being allocated as you delegated - the voting smart contract doesn't care who originally wrapped it, it only cares how much of it you've got in your wallet at the time of the vote.

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1 hour ago, brianwalden said:

I don't think this is true. It's the same as WETH or WBTC. When you wrap it, you're just making an ERC-20 coin that's pegged to the original coin. At that point you can do whatever you want with it and use it just like any other coin, or you can unwrap it whenever you want. For voting purposes, WSGB only counts toward your delegated vote if it's in your wallet. If you spend it, you no longer get the voting rewards. But if somebody sends you 1000 WSGB, you'll now have 1000 more votes being allocated as you delegated - the voting smart contract doesn't care who originally wrapped it, it only cares how much of it you've got in your wallet at the time of the vote.

See here - https://ftso.com.au/flare-network/2021/06/17/wflr-wrapped-flr-detachable-vote-explained.html

Looks like WFLR travels with FLR. You cannot both delegate the vote and also use FLR independently. So if you are participating in the Flare ecosystem, FLR also is locked in the system.

2E6A3E38-ABFA-45BE-B5B2-A6CB1054C4D4.jpeg

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It looks like this whole thing is going to function in a very similar way to, say, staking on avalanche. Providers take a fee and they will also become competitive. I suspect we will see a concentration of votes in a small number of providers, just like the vast majority of nodes on avalanche have few or no people staking with them. Pareto distribution and all that.

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7 hours ago, jbjnr said:

I hope you could tell I was being tongue in cheek! However, you could get more votes if you lowered your fee to 19% ....and so on

So a race to the bottom? We’ve only just launched. We’ll see how things go without the need to offer discounts before we’ve begun.

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2 hours ago, FTSO_AU said:

So a race to the bottom? We’ve only just launched. We’ll see how things go without the need to offer discounts before we’ve begun.

I hate to say it, but in the long run, this is going to be a race to the bottom. People don't care how amazing your price feeds are; most people only care about how much rewards they can get for delegating.

As Flare matures, earning FTSO rewards is going to have to be only one component of an FTSO's business. But I suspect there will be a lot of time before we get to that point.

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15 minutes ago, brianwalden said:

I hate to say it, but in the long run, this is going to be a race to the bottom. People don't care how amazing your price feeds are; most people only care about how much rewards they can get for delegating.

As Flare matures, earning FTSO rewards is going to have to be only one component of an FTSO's business. But I suspect there will be a lot of time before we get to that point.

I would say that's not necessarily true. Eventually on the metrics sites and elsewhere they will no doubt track the 'win-rate' of each provider, and that will be a factor. On AVAX, when you stake, you see the fee of the validator, how much other people have staked, and the uptime. Naturally those with less than 100% uptime lose out a lot, and the staking tends to collect into a small number of places, but that is almost inevitable in any system. 

There will likely be a competitive reduction in fees, but from what I've seen with other staking networks there are various ways to differentiate yourself beyond simply offering the lowest fee. 

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6 hours ago, brianwalden said:

I hate to say it, but in the long run, this is going to be a race to the bottom. People don't care how amazing your price feeds are; most people only care about how much rewards they can get for delegating.

As Flare matures, earning FTSO rewards is going to have to be only one component of an FTSO's business. But I suspect there will be a lot of time before we get to that point.

and

6 hours ago, Seoulite said:

There will likely be a competitive reduction in fees, but from what I've seen with other staking networks there are various ways to differentiate yourself beyond simply offering the lowest fee. 

Hypothetical I can set my fee to 0% and get a lot of votes, and at the same time provide price feeds that are slightly higher/lower than everyone else. Since I have a lot of votes, I will still influence the price decided on by the oracle, but because I'm also running arbitrage bots between the oracle prices I'm feeding which will be used by smart contracts, and the prices on the open market for currency pairs, I can potentially earn more by misquoting the price and gaming the market.  

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10 hours ago, FTSO_AU said:

Your rewards are paid to you direct from Flare, our fee comes from those rewards before they’re disbursed to you.

Reply by SGB-community... 10% goes to those who delegate... If only 3% of the 15billion SGB is delegated, 450mio SGB, wld it mean that 1.5billion SGB will be rewarded to the 450mio delegated SGB or per delegated SGB, 3.33SGB....Correct?

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1 hour ago, Live4xrp said:

Reply by SGB-community... 10% goes to those who delegate... If only 3% of the 15billion SGB is delegated, 450mio SGB, wld it mean that 1.5billion SGB will be rewarded to the 450mio delegated SGB or per delegated SGB, 3.33SGB....Correct?

If that happens, inflation is effectively much higher (333%).

My expectation on how this works is this -

In your example, if there are 450M delegates votes, they would get 45M SGB distributed.

The circulating supply isn’t actually 15B because about 30% belongs to the foundation etc. 

In any case, take a look at https://flaremetrics.io too. It says the inflation pool is 19.7M. Not sure how that number is calculated but that’s the pool right now.

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3 hours ago, jbjnr said:

Hypothetical I can set my fee to 0% and get a lot of votes, and at the same time provide price feeds that are slightly higher/lower than everyone else. Since I have a lot of votes, I will still influence the price decided on by the oracle, but because I'm also running arbitrage bots between the oracle prices I'm feeding which will be used by smart contracts, and the prices on the open market for currency pairs, I can potentially earn more by misquoting the price and gaming the market.  

this why they set a limit how much votes one oracle can get.. for FTSO it is 1B I think. Have no idea what is with SGB.. 

I am really interested how all of this plays out. To me it looks like it could get centralized over time. Something like mining pools at bitcoin. I mean, you only need then like 5 owners to come together and start funneling the network with "wrong" prices...

if the network can be played, people will do all they can to do so...

 

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56 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

this why they set a limit how much votes one oracle can get.. for FTSO it is 1B I think. Have no idea what is with SGB.. 

I am really interested how all of this plays out. To me it looks like it could get centralized over time. Something like mining pools at bitcoin. I mean, you only need then like 5 owners to come together and start funneling the network with "wrong" prices...

if the network can be played, people will do all they can to do so...

 

This is exactly why the canary network is a good idea. This FTSO thing is basically a game - you've gotta let it run with real money and real players and see how it goes.

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5 minutes ago, Seoulite said:

Whales just delegated a crap ton of tokens. Think we are gonna see rewards very soon:

606680350_Screenshot2021-09-23at21_54_21.thumb.png.ba027bab7b05a5b45112f9d16bb20bef.png

That little information icon said voting threshold exceeded by so many million votes. Can anyone give the details on that. Does this mean people delegated to Bifrost might want to switch to someone else?

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