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XRPL'S topology VS PoW topology


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I've thought about making a video about this but will broach the subject here.

Regarding China and the future of Monetary infrastructure geopolitics....

The key point is that currently the US/west's banks dominate the global Monetary infrastructure, and the way that XRPL'S UNL cryptography works, it creates a network topology that retains & extends this US/west's monetary dominance over time.

PoW cryptography which allows anyone with the most mining rigs to gain superiority. Nation-state actors can afford to dominate if they make it a priority. Which creates a "the guy with the most money wins by default" type of situation.

I'm not sure the SEC and Congress realize what's at stake here. Seems they are listening to the big money center banking lobby, who are hoping to delay the changeing of the current monetary infrastructure's topology, which they currently sit profitably in the middle of.

It's like newspapers fighting the internet with lobbyists. It's a losing battle, "if you can't beat em, join em". Which is best for extending their own position in the topology further into the future, so it's even in their own best interest to adopt XRPL to retain their privilaged position by becoming part of the UNL.

Somebody needs to make this fact well known to these regulators & politicians. Time is ticking. It's not a joking matter.

Edited by KarmaCoverage
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8 hours ago, KarmaCoverage said:

I'm not sure the SEC and Congress realize what's at stake here. Seems they are listening to the big money center banking lobby, who are hoping to delay the changeing of the current monetary infrastructure's topology, which they currently sit profitably in the middle of.

I think they're also listening to lobbyists and very rich bitcoin and ethereum whales who have clearly been influencing the situation since the early days. Chris Larsen hinted at some pretty nefarious goings on with certain bitcoin/ether whales trying to move the needle in their favour.

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2 hours ago, thinlyspread said:

I think they're also listening to lobbyists and very rich bitcoin and ethereum whales who have clearly been influencing the situation since the early days. Chris Larsen hinted at some pretty nefarious goings on with certain bitcoin/ether whales trying to move the needle in their favour.

This is very much the narrative that we get from the investigations by Deaton and DAI: IE the ETH foundations had the exclusive and privileged access to top execs at the SEC who just happened also be also financially benefitting from companies representing and dependent on the ETH foundation.  Furthermore the regulations were unofficially being scripted by the think tanks inspired, heavily influenced and effectively in the hands of Lubin's Consensys.  This is corruption.

The placement of Gensler has institutionalised the corrupt set up started by the Clayton admin.  The bias, which works hand in hand with the agenda of BTC maxi culture has its tentacles reaching into banking and political culture in the US, but we are hoping the bias has not reached the structures of the US courts.  Netburn seems to be standing against the corruption.:)

I do not share the enthusiasm others have for Gasparino.  To me he comes across as an opportunist old style hack who unwilling to giving much time to trying to understand the tech he is talking about, and he has not even latched on to exposing the level of corruption at the SEC.  At best his interventions seem to me to be half-hearted attempts at nudging the direction of the debate away from its BTC/ETH centric bias. I am expecting nothing from this worn out old man. (I am probably older than he is.  Some people fossilise with age.  Gasparino belongs to the old preblockchain world and looks to me to be one of these fossil people)

The rest of the world will build out the new tech without the US, after it has regained its senses the US will have to play catch up.  Crypto companies should pivot away from the US and concentrate on being centred in Japan, Singapore, the UK, the Middle East, the EU and third world countries keen to adopt blockchain tech. @KarmaCoverage - if you really are trying to do something innovative in this space I would leave the US, and try and keep my tech away from US regulatory authorities.  In the short to med term future nothing much will change.  I think china will be big, but the west will carry the day without the leadership of the US.

 

 

 

Edited by Julian_Williams
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On 9/21/2021 at 8:35 AM, Julian_Williams said:

@KarmaCoverage - if you really are trying to do something innovative in this space I would leave the US, and try and keep my tech away from US regulatory authorities.  In the short to med term future nothing much will change

I am serious, and have conceptualized the products. I need other serious folks to work with, funding and developers that understand XRPL. But honestly I could guide a developer through how to build the services. Idk, I'm hesitantly starting to look towards SE Asia. Just need real partners to work with in a funded situation.

None of that has to do with this thread, except for the fact that the Asian markets are getting a step ahead, and if I want to be at the tip of the spear of innovation, then I may have to unfortunately move. My only hope is that the US will eventually get it's sh!t straight, and given it's position in the global Monetary system, that could rapidly propel the US back to being a step ahead. It's a matter of timing. 

Edited by KarmaCoverage
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6 hours ago, KarmaCoverage said:

I am serious, and have conceptualized the products. I need other serious folks to work with, funding and developers that understand XRPL. But honestly I could guide a developer through how to build the services. Idk, I'm hesitantly starting to look towards SE Asia. Just need real partners to work with in a funded situation.

None of that has to do with this thread, except for the fact that the Asian markets are getting a step ahead, and if I want to be at the tip of the spear of innovation, then I may have to unfortunately move. My only hope is that the US will eventually get it's sh!t straight, and given it's position in the global Monetary system, that could rapidly propel the US back to being a step ahead. It's a matter of timing. 

Rule 1 of life:  If you never start it will never happen.  How about Canada or Mexico?

Edited by Julian_Williams
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Good thread and hugely important topic. I also have the ambition to pursue an idea in this space once I can pull a little money out to fund it. I happen to think a few of us here could pull off the proof of concept with one very good blockchain / NFT developer. But that is besides the point here. 

Several excellent points are made.

  • Ethereum and BTC - because they work on a model that CAN be easily centralized with money - are the darlings of Wall Street and big banksters. The ethereum-Consensys-JP Morgan partnership is all you need to look at in my opinion. 
  • Ripple was purposefully slowed down with the intention to corruptly capture market share for ethereum - and by extension JP Morgan. I don't believe this is simply to keep the payments on the ethereum so that it can work as it does today i.e. in a reasonably decentralized manner considering the miners / validators / nodes / what have you. I do believe that with the golden ticket they have been given, their end goal will be to squeeze out all the operators that make it decentralized today, and eventually to control all of those operations themselves - or through their own banking network. This would ensure that they make the lion's share of all the transactional fees on ethereum / BTC, just like they do now in the banking system. 
  • I largely agree on Gasparino in that he saw an opportunity for clicks and took it. Though it should be said he did notice something about this years ago when reporting on the Working Group that was feeding Hinman their rules.  Hopefully other journalists / reporters willing to do a deeper dive will see the same opportunity. 
  • There is something in my mind that tells me the Gensler story is still developing in a big way. This could be mostly naivety, I do not believe that his ultimate intentions are worn on his sleeve. What he says regarding the SEC's broad reach today is largely true. He has also been sending very clear messages to Congress that he will use that brush (stifle innovation) until Congress deems otherwise (frees up innovation). 
  • I am reminded of course that he often backs up the work of Clayton as previous Chair, but I don't think he can undermine a $1.3B lawsuit by doing otherwise yet. I am also reminded that both he and Mary Jo White are Democrats, nominated by Obama to work together as heads of the two major financial oversight agencies. I happen to believe that the two of them see eye to eye in a much more concerted way than Gensler and Clayton do. 
  • At the same time Hinman and Clayton were deeming ethereum a commodity, Gensler was calling it a security. So there is reason to believe (depending on how corruptible he would have been as Chair then) that Gensler would NOT have given ethereum the free pass. He knows they were once a security, he knows they do have a central hub of organizers, and he knows that the 2.0 launch is a centralized effort. 
  • And now, a legal team including his long time colleague Mary Jo White, is making all of this information public in court. When you couple that with the work being done by the XRP Army to make all of this public...I just think that ethereum is not yet completely in the clear. Now we know that JP Morgan is in the ethereum corner, but if any of my hunches are true, I can't figure out what big backers might be in Ripple's corner if there is soon to be regulatory heat on ethereum / Consesnys / Lubin. 

TLDR: I guess I think that we are looking at this as a Ripple v. SEC chess match, but I think we may have one of the opponents wrong. I think the SEC is a chess piece, and the game is being played by Ripple (but with some shadowy support) and ethereum / BTC (with support of JPM and by extension the legacy banking system) Or maybe Ripple actually is David in a David v Goliath battle. Just think there is so much more going on in the background. 

 

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7 hours ago, Julian_Williams said:

Rule 1 of life:  If you never start it will never happen.  How about Canada or Mexico?

Well I thought I had it figured out about a year ago, but the solution like putting a square peg in a round hole.

Then Flare popped up, and that made things WAY easier, but that is a 2 network solution. 

Now I'm looking at Hooks and I'm 95% sure it can be done all on XRPL if the Hooks amendment is ever passed. I assume it will be in time. A fully Layer 1 solution is preferable. 

KarmaCoverage P2P methods were just a few years too early. I think the timing is better now with the DeFi stuff, and the Insurance industry is still a big target of low hanging fruit. I see them like travel agents circa 1995, they don't understand what's coming with the IoV... business model Innovation,  the most dangerous kind of innovation for incumbents. 

Never been to Mexico or Canada, but I do speak some Spanish on about a 5 year old's level. Traveled quite a bit through Central America for surf.

I'm not sure I fully explained the topology significance very well. I have a fuzzy picture in my head, I will think about how I can draw it out and share. I think if FinCEN & Treasury understand this point, XRPL's Consensus methods would be the only acceptable blockchain cryptography.

Edited by KarmaCoverage
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4 hours ago, RipMcGillicuddy said:

At the same time Hinman and Clayton were deeming ethereum a commodity, Gensler was calling it a security. So there is reason to believe (depending on how corruptible he would have been as Chair then) that Gensler would NOT have given ethereum the free pass. He knows they were once a security, he knows they do have a central hub of organizers, and he knows that the 2.0 launch is a centralized effort.

To this point, I meant to also add that during his testimony, he and Elizabeth Warren had what appeared to be a very scripted exchange. In that exchange, Senator Warren specifically named ethereum and their high fees as something harmful to consumers and investors. 

There is just something to that I believe. And no, I am in no way ready to believe that Gensler/Warren will be my saviors. I just sense that there was a reason behind her namedropping ethereum in that moment with all eyes watching. Including and especially Joe Lubin. 

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On 9/20/2021 at 10:16 PM, KarmaCoverage said:

I've thought about making a video about this but will broach the subject here.

Regarding China and the future of Monetary infrastructure geopolitics....

The key point is that currently the US/west's banks dominate the global Monetary infrastructure, and the way that XRPL'S UNL cryptography works, it creates a network topology that retains & extends this US/west's monetary dominance over time.

PoW cryptography which allows anyone with the most mining rigs to gain superiority. Nation-state actors can afford to dominate if they make it a priority. Which creates a "the guy with the most money wins by default" type of situation.

I'm not sure the SEC and Congress realize what's at stake here. Seems they are listening to the big money center banking lobby, who are hoping to delay the changeing of the current monetary infrastructure's topology, which they currently sit profitably in the middle of.

It's like newspapers fighting the internet with lobbyists. It's a losing battle, "if you can't beat em, join em". Which is best for extending their own position in the topology further into the future, so it's even in their own best interest to adopt XRPL to retain their privilaged position by becoming part of the UNL.

Somebody needs to make this fact well known to these regulators & politicians. Time is ticking. It's not a joking matter.

Back to your original post. It's my understanding that to be an XRPL validator you need to gain the trust of other validators to let you in. It's decentralized, it's not like you need every validator to trust you, but you've gotta get somebody to. And if they start trusting a bunch of crappy validators then the other validators aren't going to trust them and they (and you if they're your only connection to the rest of the network) are going to get cut off.

XRPL validators don't make money by validating, they're invested in the success of the network for other reasons. So they're going to be very cautious about who they trust.

PoW in the otherhand basically rewards whoever can acquire quality internet, electricity, and hardware for the best prices. It simply becomes an arms race. Miners are incentivized by the profit and not necessarily what's good for the network.

Is this what you're saying?

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15 minutes ago, brianwalden said:

Is this what you're saying?

Yes

And given that set of facts, I see the topology of validators which "the west" can build, as a bull work against China's efforts to dethrone the USD's position in the global Monetary system. 

If the western/US banks adopt XRPL then the network of UNL of validators that will be formed will be heavily "western" thus extending the power we have further into the future.

The USD will not be the sole global reserve currency in the multi polar world we are moving towards. 

Edited by KarmaCoverage
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Just now, KarmaCoverage said:

Yes

And given that set of facts, I see the topology of validators which "the west" can build as a bull work against China's efforts to dethrone the USD's position in the global Monetary system. 

If the western/US banks adopt XRPL then the network of UNL of validators that will be formed will be heavily "western" thus extending the power we have further into the future.

The USD will not be the sole global reserve currency in the multi polar world we are moving towards. 

This is actually kind of ironic because one of the early reasons Ripple put forth for why a decentralized public ledger is needed is because countries like China and Russia aren't going to trust Western systems. Even though in principle the network of validators shouldn't be political, it should only be based on their ability to faithfully advance the ledger, it sounds like your saying that in practice it is political and maybe should in fact be political.

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11 minutes ago, brianwalden said:

This is actually kind of ironic because one of the early reasons Ripple put forth for why a decentralized public ledger is needed is because countries like China and Russia aren't going to trust Western systems. Even though in principle the network of validators shouldn't be political, it should only be based on their ability to faithfully advance the ledger, it sounds like your saying that in practice it is political and maybe should in fact be political.

When this dawned on me, at first I questioned the concept. Political stuff was never part of the original vision. Then I realized that if you are trying to improve the global Monetary infrastructure, geopolitics will inevitably become part of the situation. Now I believe this is more of a "national security" issue, but not just for the US for "the west" more broadly.

IMHO, Congress should (I have little faith) understand this key concept prior to making any laws.

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3 minutes ago, KarmaCoverage said:

When this dawned on me, at first I questioned the concept. Political stuff was never part of the original vision. Then I realized that if you are trying to improve the global Monetary infrastructure, geopolitics will inevitably become part of the situation. Now I believe this is more of a "national security" issue, but not just for the US for "the west" more broadly.

IMHO, Congress should (I have little faith) understand this key concept prior to making any laws.

The only thing Congress understands is who's brib - excuse me - lobbying them.

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