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The new Ripple competitor!


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I wouldn't underestimate them. They have a strong team, good tech and business connections, and have learned lessons from the mistakes of Ripple.

Ripple are not going to be the only player. They might not even be the dominant one; they've screwed up a LOT!

The huge advantage Ripple have (had?!) is their warchest – but it's also their achilles heel as far as the SEC court case is concerned; Stellar (Development Foundation) burned 55 billion tokens in part to avoid precisely this issue in America. But SDF still have a MASSIVE amount of tokens relative to distribution, but no legal overhang. Velo seem to me to be a serious outfit and have poached some ex-Ripple employees. I also like what they're doing with a bridge token that's just as fast as XRP (because it's on Stellar) but lacks the volatility (because it's credit-backed).

So I think of Ripple as being a metaphorical leader at the head of a lost party, abandoned in a hellish rainforest (of technical, regulatory and legacy barriers), hungry and desperate to escape to a promised land on the other side. To do so they have to hack their way out of the forest with a machete. Ripple (with the only machete, their XRP warchest) are religiously hellbent on getting free that way and so are seemingly "noble" (but also entirely self-interested) by clearing a path ahead for the rest of the group. They are heros to some, but also tragic naive crusaders to others in their hellbent trajectory, because while they tirelessly while hack and slash their way through ay great peril, everyone else is (sensibly) conserving energy by walking 10 steps behind; they receive fewer cuts and scrapes too, but when the time is right, they'll just trample right over the dumb guy in front and make their own way to the promised land at the first sniff of victory.

Edited by thinlyspread
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1 hour ago, thinlyspread said:

I wouldn't underestimate them. They have a strong team, good tech and business connections, and have learned lessons from the mistakes of Ripple.

Ripple are not going to be the only player. They might not even be the dominant one; they've screwed up a LOT!

The huge advantage Ripple have (had?!) is their warchest – but it's also their achilles heel as far as the SEC court case is concerned; Stellar (Development Foundation) burned 55 billion tokens in part to avoid precisely this issue in America. But SDF still have a MASSIVE amount of tokens relative to distribution, but no legal overhang. Velo seem to me to be a serious outfit and have poached some ex-Ripple employees. I also like what they're doing with a bridge token that's just as fast as XRP (because it's on Stellar) but lacks the volatility (because it's credit-backed).

So I think of Ripple as being a metaphorical leader at the head of a lost party, abandoned in a hellish rainforest (of technical, regulatory and legacy barriers), hungry and desperate to escape to a promised land on the other side. To do so they have to hack their way out of the forest with a machete. Ripple (with the only machete, their XRP warchest) are religiously hellbent on getting free that way and so are seemingly "noble" (but also entirely self-interested) by clearing a path ahead for the rest of the group. They are heros to some, but also tragic naive crusaders to others in their hellbent trajectory, because while they tirelessly while hack and slash their way through ay great peril, everyone else is (sensibly) conserving energy by walking 10 steps behind; they receive fewer cuts and scrapes too, but when the time is right, they'll just trample right over the dumb guy in front and make their own way to the promised land at the first sniff of victory.

Agree with most what you write, but in my experience, the most genius solution often is the most simple one. Remember some smart guy saying that the best ideas are those that you can explain in just a few words. And that's exactly the case with ripples ODL: Exchanging fiat1 for a decentralized, fast and cheap moving asset that you can exchange again in a distant location for fiat2. That idea is just genius and really simple. This idea and this tech got my attention in 2013 and it still does. Of course putting a simple idea at work often is hard, very hard. But at the end the simplicity of the idea and the tech, compared with complex solutions, will pay off - always...

Every other solution that - for the basics and fundamental principles - goes beyond this simplicity will get trapped into the added complexity. #XRP only needs 1) legal clarity 2) liquidity. Of course, Stellar (and others) can compete around that SAME principle, but I do NOT believe in all those work arounds that basically are trying to avoid legal and/or liquidity hurdles. The fastest (best) way to take a hurdle is to jump over, never to take another road around...

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4 hours ago, kanaas said:

Remember some smart guy saying that the best ideas are those that you can explain in just a few words

It's a common - if uncommonly used, today - sentiment, throughout the ages.  One of my favorite formulations of it:

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."

(Dunno who said that - probably a genius!)

:wink:

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So the premise of the video is great; Velo is a competitor to Ripple in the region.  You have to expect competition.

 

Some further considerations about the issue:

  • Stellar and XRPL work in much the same way, and they are talking about using issued assets.  That means there is counterparty risk to using the Velo token instead of XLM.  This risk can be mitigated by the contracts people sign to join the network. It's not an unreasonable risk - banks must trust each other somewhat as is.  It also in all likelihood means prefunding larger payments - at least that's what some of the Lightnet stuff has seemed to say.
  • (Notice in the 2nd interview they are comparing to stablecoins - which IBM issues on Stellar, but they don't want that, they want to be able to peg their own values; tokenize as they see fit among the participating people.)
  • Velo has partnered with Tempo Payments and Bitazza who work with EU corridors.  I believe Bitazza is a Lightnet investment.  The press calls it a $17b corridor that is opening.  I wonder how much/yr those two apps generate.
  • A bigger threat than Stellar is that the company has Royal Family backers/ involvement.  That goes a long ways towards trust and making connections.
  • Don't forget that Thailand, too has an agreement with Malaysia for linking their national payment systems in a xborder mCBDC kind of system.  That could impact remittances in the region. 
  • And after issuing 30b, only 40m are sold.  Bootstrapping that kind of liquidity is hard

So it's competition, but the question is whether the influence in Thailand can command enough tokenized assets among participating banks to provide the necessary liquidity.

 

 

 

 

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I look at the ecosystem of Kin apps and their high throughput for what are relatively meh apps, and the throughput bottlenecks they faced when trying to implement and scale KIN3 on the Stellar blockchain, and 3-4 second transaction times are not fast enough long-term from a user experience standpoint.

When developers for Kin apps experienced the speed difference after the KIN4 migration to Solana, performance as a SPL token was so good they needed to program throttled animations for transactions so that users would actually know something was being done (and that the app buttons weren't broken).

Neither XRP or XLM can afford to not innovate further and improve throughput. The rest of the analog space is writing on tablets, and XLM/XRP may have introduced a telegraph machine introduced into that space, but Solana is a radio transmission.

I own all three. I think all three have set important milestones in the space. But none of them can afford to rest on their laurels - there's a lot of broadening expectations floating around in many spaces as the normies - who have intimate knowledge of institutional inertia - learn more about these systems. We haven't even begun to attack the real issues with these institutions - payments are just the tip of the iceberg that needs a serious meltdown.

Ripple's advantage is that they have studied Amazon's playbook, which has always centered around building a solid simple vertical and making the longest tail profitable before moving on to another vertical. Their strength is that they have a number of solid verticals on backburners that have already been brought past PoC and are in drydock waiting for attention. But if development takes too long, the folks working on these projects could pull away from the parent and may end up spinning off from Ripple - causing a bit of talent drain.

So, I see the biggest risk for Ripple is fragmentation over focus - and the weird thing is this might actually be BETTER for the XRPL because it would diversify the token even more. The investment of diverse enterprises in the XRPL technology is really what we want. In some ways I think Brad's peanut butter manifesto may be pulling too hard in the conservative direction - that's probably his personal education experience in Ripple - navigating the gray area and learning when to kick the baby bird out and hatch another egg.

If you look at Solana's timeline and tech project partnerships, they've put a lot of energy into diversification of use cases and demonstrated broad utility. They've done this to the detriment of the popularity of the project, only really being concerned about exchanges and promotional advertising over the past 6 months or so. Partner projects of theirs like Arweave have likewise put tech development and R&D first, really hammering the utility - not really being concerned about exchanges until they are happy with the product.

Is this letting the perfect get in the way of the good enough? Maybe. But in terms of valuation it seems to be proving itself out in both cases.

Not to crap on XRP or XLM - they've done great things in the past - and must keep going.

 

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I think this Velo idea is real competition, unlike many projects that are that are really walled garden stable coins  but paraded as "XRP killers".  So ODL has proper competition from R3 and now this Velo project.  XLM have been talking about their launch of payment rails in SE Asia for at least nine months, so that this project is moving slowly forward is not a surprise.  As I have mentioned before a business is much more than its ideas, concepts and software; a business has to work on many levels.  Jed is totally unsuited to working with business partners, but I think Velo are smart and have probably worked that out.

Ripple remain way out in the lead, not just because of the simplicity of their ODL project.  Ripple have built up reputation, real world testing, users and experience, contacts and partners, Ripplenet partners and users,  liquidity, custody solutions, trustlines, smart wallet solutions, offices on every continent, cryptographic teams, financial and regulatory teams, acquisitions in other companies, FLR smart contract integration, and ODL will soon have the blessing of SEC.   The IPO will bring them a fortune on top of the biggest war chest in crypto to spend on more strategic acquisitions.

Ripple is rolling forward.  The competition so far is not really in any position to stop the momentum of Ripple/XRP

 

Edited by Julian_Williams
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1 hour ago, thinlyspread said:

Er, that's what I said. 

Sorry. You're quite right, I was not convinced that they've done lots wrong and that stellar are in some ways taking a better path. I think they've chosen wisely to focus on building out their payments network//banking connections and getting their xrp/crypto solution integrated into that network. The rest will follow.

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10 hours ago, jbjnr said:

Ripple's warchest is what will set them apart. Their Line of Credit allows them to offer liquidity at a price. They can lend xrp to a client at a price of P, charge x% interest on it, then buy back xrp from the open market at P+(fraction of x%) - this allows them to make money

Ripple is the Uber of liquidity (yes I hate "the Uber of x" phrase), but they are connecting pools of liquidity, from people trading between Fiat & XRP around the world.

It's a Routing problem.

Ripple's LoC for XRP is like Uber helping finance an Uber driver to buy a car to drive Uber.

Uber/Ripple still earns from doing the Routing

Edited by KarmaCoverage
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My "trader's" point of view...40M token sold during their ICO at 0.05 USD...but 30B printed...so they have 29960M token left to do whatever they want...including dumping...we've seen this movie before!

..and Jed was featured in it!

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I'll admit that I do not follow Ripple's news closely, but I struggle to see where they have made substantive progress in XRP adoption. The ODL seems successful, but small. SWIFT has been successful in protecting their lock on cross-border transfers and I don't see widespread signs of institutional movement towards adopting XRP. There are a couple hundred banks using Ripple products, but I would think that number needs to rise into the thousands to really start a movement. The CBDC space is hard to read, but it seems that Ripple has managed to get some productive dialogues going, but it remains very unclear how that world will evolve and what it will mean for XRP or other cryptos. I would think that Ripple needs to take Velo seriously.  

 

 

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