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Turing completeness vs Hooks cybernetic feedback loops


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Looking at Ethereum economic incentive vs the Flare economic incentive mechanisms.

I find myself wondering if the oracle design of Flare (like FTSO) provides a more dynamic type of network data flow topology & feedback loop nature, vs with Ethereum the smart contracts are more static and fixed code & economic cost model.

I'm not sure, but something seems like the potential dynamism would out preform the more fixed incentive system (TX fees).

Been looking at Hooks amendment, and looking at it from more of a cybernetic/feedback loop perspective, (stacking Hooks on hooks), so like "smart contracts" but limited by discreet segments of time. So not exactly Turing completeness but sort of a lightweight way of enabling the same type of functionality.

I'm wondering if the lightweight Hooks type methodology may have some advantages over the full blown Turing completeness? 

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I think it was JoelKatz who said hooks was an easy and lightweight way to give the ledger a kind of smart contract functionality and give others a basis to build on for even more sophistication. Codius is coming, so I expect hooks will be used as a kind of backend / low level functional component to allow for this extra sophistication.

 

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9 minutes ago, HAL1000 said:

Like I said "so I expect hooks will be used as a kind of backend / low level functional component to allow for this extra sophistication."

Just making sure I understand the architecture. I think I'm missing something.

So the Hooks can preform any series of XRPL TX types, but you would need a Hook per TX type, and have to string them together?

At the same time each Hook can be run on several Codius nodes?

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Re my original thought, it seems like the computational power used in the Ethereum network is a closed network (miners), whereas the Flare Network is inherently open (FTSO) & connected to other networks. So the topology/graph that each network builds should take a different shape.

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I think in my mind (I have not studied this in depth or dug through the code), my day's of doing that kind of thing, are mostly behind me, so my thinking on this, was to put it simply, Hooks are like interacting with an OS at a low level, whilst Codius and Flare act more like apps, that build on top of this low level OS type functionality.

As for "So the topology/graph that each network builds should take a different shape.", I would say yes, the approach that each dev team is using, will result in a different topology, but I don't know enough specifics to go beyond these kinds of speculative answers and I ain't getting paid enough to download anything from Github ever again :)

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10 minutes ago, HAL1000 said:

to put it simply, Hooks are like interacting with an OS at a low level, whilst Codius and Flare act more like apps,

Yeah I can see that, but would you then be considering XRPL the "OS"?

Flare is definitely the DeFi "app" layer.

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"Yeah I can see that, but would you then be considering XRPL the "OS"?"

Yes is the simple answer, it's kind of like interfacing with a relatively unsophisticated Kernel, you ain't going to interact with it at a lower level and the hooks (as far I can tell) are the way for you to do this. This is not a perfect analogy, but there are many variants of Linux, but they all spawn from a common code base. This is how Codius and Flare etc, as once again, as far as I know will develop on top of the XRPL.

At this point, going any further into this subject, will require either a Codius or Flare Dev etc to step in, or a certain Ripple CTO or somebody here who is really familiar with the code, which ain't me. I'm just speculating based on decades of coding and general / very specific computer knowledge.

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Are you trying to tell me the internet doesn't run on batch files, anymore?  Are you sure?  I used to be able to do a lot with a batch file... :)  Next thing you know, you'll tell me the Hooks don't actually hook interrupts.  Web Assembly is coming - everything old is new again, eh? :)

Pardon me, gotta hook an interrupt!  (Or was it interrupt a Hook?)  Oh, this old age stuff is so confusing.  Where did I put my Miracle Ear and glasses?  Who is this gray facial-haired guy in the mirror every morning?  Who am I?  Why am I here?

Must. Need. Coffee.  :JC_coffee2:

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5 minutes ago, KarmaCoverage said:

How could it not be possible? Spin up your own Rippled with Hooks and ILP connect back to the main chain.

so my sidechain have 100 billion XRP.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, yxxyun said:

so my sidechain have 100 billion XRP.

Sure, or more/less whatever you judge will be needed to serve the market you are serving. Yeah.

You could also make a sidechain with different rules, KarmaCoverage has always been thought of, as what's now being called a "sidechain".

It has its own set of rules, necessary to make sure the service can't go -$0.00 and has always considered XRPL as it's method for Coverage settlements.

I had a convo with A. Britto back when he was leaving Ripple, I asserted that "escrowing value across time and space" was the real usecase for Blockchain.

He disagreed, saying "no its payments", which I agreed with, but I'm not sure he fully focused on the fact that doing "payments" === "escrowing value across time and space"... insurance and the risk markets are exactly the same. 

No need to reinvent the wheel.

What is PolySign doing...? "Custody" === escrowing value across time and space. With their own Blockchain apparently. So yeah.

Edited by KarmaCoverage
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