How many drafts of Hinman's Eth is not a security speech?

[HAL1000]

John E Deaton

Remember when I suggested relevant questions to ask Hinman at his deposition included questions about how many drafts were made of his #BTC & #ETH Speech, and who helped and/or reviewed the speech? We now know that there are 63 emails attaching drafts of Hinman’s speech.

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No wonder the SEC does not want to turn over any correspondence, I'm sure that was not exactly a one way conversation, so the SEC and some of it's staff (JC included, I bet), must have found themselves inputting something into this speech, so no matter what THEY say, WE, WE'RE etc, really was THEIR opinion, not just Hinman's. The SEC's strings are showing and THEY are not doing their jobs or holding to their mandate, they are puppets and potentially some are puppets of the CCP.

"So We're comfortable in some sort of viewing these as items that DON'T have to be regulated AS SECURITIES."

BEING INTERVIEWED AS - SEC DIRECTOR - NOT MR HINMAN.

This SEC case is a sham, it has got nothing to do with GG's protecting investors BS narrative, and it's still going on, just to delay Ripple and to allow the competition (CCP) and incumbents to catch up. Despite ALL their BS and string pulling, XRP is over a $ again, so FU puppets and all of those pulling your strings.

Rant Over

Edited August 12, 2021 by HAL1000

[Julian_Williams]

63 consultative emails with attachments (and I would guess most emails about teh speech did not carry the attachments?) - that is a lot inhouse consultative discussion about the speech.  It is becoming very clear that the speech was part written by others at SEC and not by Hinman alone.  I guess there must be a lot of discussion/clues about why SEC were motivated to give ETH a pass, which in turn would surely include mentions of who the outside forces were that needed the Hinman speech clarity?  (A paper trail to Simpson Thatcher and the CCP?) I just wonder why SEC have not settled before the case got this embarrassing?   

My best guess is that SEC's aggression is an attempt to flush Ripple to the table to finish the case before SEC have to give up those incriminating emails.  Whilst Ripple are resisting settling without complete clarity which SEC cannot give without losing control over crypto.  

Meanwhile Gensler widens the front to get greater powers for SEC to control exchanges and everything to do with crypto.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Julian_Williams

[Guest]

Gary Gensler is a disappointment to say the least. 

He says there is market clarity, which is ironic when two of his commissioners who have been part of the SEC longer than he has say the complete opposite. 

He says this is about investor protection, but refuses to give clear guidelines as to what is a security within crypto and why.

It's really not that complicated. 

Here SEC, let us help you.

1.) Any company run like an ICO should register as a security moving forward. 

2.) Digital assets currently in the secondary market are not securities, but instead should be classified as currencies, or commodities, or property. 

3.) All exchanges serving the public should register with all pertinent government agencies and have KYC / AML.

4.) There should be a "cop on the beat" or enforcement agency to regulate and reign in pump and dump schemes. Exchanges should facilitate capturing these people perpetratrating these schemes and close their accounts and have said agency prosecute them. 

5.) Crypto to crypto should not be taxable events. This will stimulate growth in the nascent market and provide liquidity. Any money exiting back to Fiat should be taxed.

6.) Provide a working group within the government to work with different crypto companies to stimulate growth for the industry and our country. I'm being USA centric here, sorry.

All the SEC is doing is wasting tax payer dollars. Nothing is being resolved. If the government is truly worried about a "run" on these assets that could potentially destabilize financial markets, regulation through enforcement doesn't cure this potential problem. We have incompetent people at the helm. 

[Julian_Williams]

6 hours ago, Cambridge said:

Gary Gensler is a disappointment to say the least. 

He says there is market clarity, which is ironic when two of his commissioners who have been part of the SEC longer than he has say the complete opposite. 

He says this is about investor protection, but refuses to give clear guidelines as to what is a security within crypto and why.

It's really not that complicated. 

Here SEC, let us help you.

1.) Any company run like an ICO should register as a security moving forward. 

2.) Digital assets currently in the secondary market are not securities, but instead should be classified as currencies, or commodities, or property. 

3.) All exchanges serving the public should register with all pertinent government agencies and have KYC / AML.

4.) There should be a "cop on the beat" or enforcement agency to regulate and reign in pump and dump schemes. Exchanges should facilitate capturing these people perpetratrating these schemes and close their accounts and have said agency prosecute them. 

5.) Crypto to crypto should not be taxable events. This will stimulate growth in the nascent market and provide liquidity. Any money exiting back to Fiat should be taxed.

6.) Provide a working group within the government to work with different crypto companies to stimulate growth for the industry and our country. I'm being USA centric here, sorry.

All the SEC is doing is wasting tax payer dollars. Nothing is being resolved. If the government is truly worried about a "run" on these assets that could potentially destabilize financial markets, regulation through enforcement doesn't cure this potential problem. We have incompetent people at the helm. 

Excellent post @Cambridge.

Item 5 - how does that work in practice.  Lets say I have an uphold card and use XRP as a currency.  Being paid in XRP by my clients and paying for items on Amazon.  I have no way of keeping track of the fiat gains?  I think it is simply impossible to tax crypto gains against fiat.

I do understand hat at present I make investments.  I buy a big amount in July in fiat and convert back to fiat when I sell my investments in Dec.  That I can see is taxable

[brianwalden]

12 minutes ago, Julian_Williams said:

Excellent post @Cambridge.

Item 5 - how does that work in practice.  Lets say I have an uphold card and use XRP as a currency.  Being paid in XRP by my clients and paying for items on Amazon.  I have no way of keeping track of the fiat gains?  I think it is simply impossible to tax crypto gains against fiat.

I do understand hat at present I make investments.  I buy a big amount in July in fiat and convert back to fiat when I sell my investments in Dec.  That I can see is taxable

Why is it impossible to track? You've got a record of all your transactions on the ledger. All you need is a good job coin tracking service.

[Julian_Williams]

1 hour ago, brianwalden said:

Why is it impossible to track? You've got a record of all your transactions on the ledger. All you need is a good job coin tracking service.

Say I buy pencils from Amazon from a pool of XRP that I have accumulated and I am accumulating over a long period of time.  It is a lot of maths.

There are people who are living their lives using XRP as their first currency. (See video)

Maybe it is possible to build some sort of accounting software into the transactions on an uphold card?  But then I might have five debit and credit cards and live in more than one country. 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Julian_Williams

[brianwalden]

I don't know what other countries are like, but here in America you basically have to pay for either software or a tax advisor to file your annual tax returns. I've tried it with paper and pencil, it was horrible, the tax laws are just too complicated.

If you're living a crypto life, you've got to pay for coin tracking software. With good software that can import everything automatically, it's not too much work.

How are you tracking everything for taxes now? I don't see how the process with a debit card is any different, it's just one more thing you have to track.

[HAL1000]

Deaton - there is only one way to deal with a bully. PUNCH THAT MF IN HIS FACE I’m up at 3 am for a reason *****. See you soon @SEC:-

"If his speech was never an opinion or decision of the SEC or never officially adopted by the SEC, why and how would it be protected by the deliberative process? There was no deliberation by the SEC! His personal opinion doesn’t need protection of the attorney privilege."

It's funny how logic and common sense reasoning seems to elude some top leaders at the SEC, makes me wonder are they just corrupt or sociopaths or both!

[Julian_Williams]

54 minutes ago, HAL1000 said:

Deaton - there is only one way to deal with a bully. PUNCH THAT MF IN HIS FACE I’m up at 3 am for a reason *****. See you soon @SEC:-

"If his speech was never an opinion or decision of the SEC or never officially adopted by the SEC, why and how would it be protected by the deliberative process? There was no deliberation by the SEC! His personal opinion doesn’t need protection of the attorney privilege."

It's funny how logic and common sense reasoning seems to elude some top leaders at the SEC, makes me wonder are they just corrupt or sociopaths or both!

I have wanted to believe that Gensler has inherited a poisoned chalice and that he has to go along with the status quo whilst he sorts the mess out, that would sometimes include making very silly statements to support his team during a lawsuit that he is losing, but what I am seeing is Gensler taking no action to sort out the corruption, and making the mess bigger.  I am beginning to feel Gensler is Clayton mark 2.  

[Shmoe]

1 hour ago, brianwalden said:

I don't know what other countries are like, but here in America you basically have to pay for either software or a tax advisor to file your annual tax returns. I've tried it with paper and pencil, it was horrible, the tax laws are just too complicated.

If you're living a crypto life, you've got to pay for coin tracking software. With good software that can import everything automatically, it's not too much work.

How are you tracking everything for taxes now? I don't see how the process with a debit card is any different, it's just one more thing you have to track.

Suggestions on a good coin tracking app?

[RipMcGillicuddy]

7 minutes ago, Julian_Williams said:

I have wanted to believe that Gensler has inherited a poisoned chalice and that he has to go along with the status quo whilst he sorts the mess out, that would sometimes include making very silly statements to support his team during a lawsuit that he is losing, but what I am seeing is Gensler taking no action to sort out the corruption, and making the mess bigger.  I am beginning to feel Gensler is Clayton mark 2.  

Cut from the same exact cloth. 

When Garlinghouse referenced his statement as akin to an alcoholic denying they have a problem, it became pretty clera that GG and Ripple are not nestled up all nice and cozy like JPM Goldman Sachs and GG/SEC are. 

[HAL1000]

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by HAL1000

[RipMcGillicuddy]

We're not bringing this point up enough because Tenreiro made a brief reference to this months back if I remember correctly...

XRP currently being sold on the secondary markets ARE NOT SECURITIES. I can't dig up the exact wording from the SEC, but I am fairly sure one of their filings did state something close to this. 

So what are the exchanges doing by not relisting? I've always thought coinbase and maybe some others would be very slow to relist XRP even after a victory/settlement. I still feel that will be the case and most Americans will miss the opportunities to profit off of an American technology (if they aren't already holding). But even those of us who are holding are at risk of being officially relisted after the price has already corrected. 

The SEC and the American exchanges are effectively kicking the American investors while they're down. 

[HAL1000]

17 minutes ago, RipMcGillicuddy said:

We're not bringing this point up enough because Tenreiro made a brief reference to this months back if I remember correctly...

XRP currently being sold on the secondary markets ARE NOT SECURITIES. I can't dig up the exact wording from the SEC, but I am fairly sure one of their filings did state something close to this. 

So what are the exchanges doing by not relisting? I've always thought coinbase and maybe some others would be very slow to relist XRP even after a victory/settlement. I still feel that will be the case and most Americans will miss the opportunities to profit off of an American technology (if they aren't already holding). But even those of us who are holding are at risk of being officially relisted after the price has already corrected. 

The SEC and the American exchanges are effectively kicking the American investors while they're down. 

Deaton's entire class action, is about addressing this very issue, no matter what was said in court by Tenreiro, that is NOT what SEC filed in their documentation. The exchanges and secondary markets are not in the clear, even individuals trading "potential securities" are not in the clear and until we ALL get legal clarity for XRP and many other crypto assets, then the SEC can and in this case, have seen those trading in any of these "whatever the SEC want's to class them as", as fair game.

This is at the heart of the problem and the SEC don't have one (well maybe one or two, Hester etc), but they don't really want clarity, they want a new bunch of piggy banks to raid = crypto.

Edited August 12, 2021 by HAL1000

[brianwalden]

3 hours ago, Shmoe said:

Suggestions on a good coin tracking app?

I use cointracker.info - it seems to support a lot of platforms and they have lifetime subscriptions.

I haven't found any one that's great for the XRPL. They can all pull in your XRP transactions, but if you're old-school like me and have all kinds of coins in your transaction history, you have to do it manually. I had to download a spreadsheet of my transactions, tweak it manually so everything was in the right format, and import it.