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A Vision for Federated Sidechains on the XRP Ledger


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1 hour ago, yxxyun said:

That means hooks will not introduced to the XRPL mainnet, XRPL Labs need to launch their own sidechain.

I wouldn't say that, keep in mind this is simply a proposal for increasing the use cases of the XRPL. Even if software is implemented to enable Federated Side Chains, the main chain wouldn't cease to accept further amendments. 

Might it make more sense to introduce hooks on a side chain? Thats still to be determined in my opinion (Not that my opinion matters all that much). From the documentation, XRPL hooks seem lightweight and it still may make sense to have them on the main chain 

Edited by nobubu
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Yeah, really like this idea. Takes a lot of burden away from XRPL main, allows for experimentation & novel project launches, interesting interoperability possibilities, and promotes the mainnet as the core network. 

Only conern is people keep spinning up sidechains with pointless new tokens rather than using the "trust-locked" XRP on the sidechain, but I guess that's part of the deal. 

Could create a proliferation of new assets and features, look what happened with Ethereum and ERC-20 etc. This is in many ways more powerful given the speed of the interlocking chains. 

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8 hours ago, hammertoe said:

ask questions

One quick question I had for now is about this intruiging quote:

Quote

For example, a sidechain could operate without transaction fees or reserve requirements, it could operate without its own copy of the XRP Ledger's decentralized exchange, or it could add new transaction types and functionality for storing large chunks of data on-ledger.

I asked David about this a few years back, whether one could in theory "rip out" the DEX – my reasoning at the time was concerning a hypothetical way to slightly speed up the XRP consensus; but I believe at that time David said it wouldn't have much effect. 

Now we're in 2021, and suppose it being a sidechain not XRPL mainnet, would removing the DEX (or other "guts" of the network protocol) have any performance improvements do you think? I realize it's pretty hypothetical at this juncture.

Be cool to see an "even faster", payments specific side rail or something. 

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2 hours ago, nobubu said:

Might it make more sense to introduce hooks on a side chain?

Being able to abstract burdensome features away from the XRPL to prevent congestion/high fees on the main net like we've seen run-a-muck of the Ethereum platform makes plenty sense in my opinion. Reading David Schwartz's vision for Federated side-chain made it seem as if they are just now exploring this new feature. However, I suspect that Ripple already has a fully operational federated side-chain version built and ready to go for its Private XRPL Ledgers for CBDCs. I expect they will copy and paste a good portion to utilize for the XRPL main net. 

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5 hours ago, King34Maine said:

Reading David Schwartz's vision for Federated side-chain made it seem as if they are just now exploring this new feature. However, I suspect that Ripple already has a fully operational federated side-chain version built and ready to go for its Private XRPL Ledgers for CBDCs. I expect they will copy and paste a good portion to utilize for the XRPL main net. 

 

Naturally, we'd all love to hear how anything might have changed from the experimentation being described here:

On 1/2/2018 at 8:02 PM, mDuo13 said:

@ahbritto has a spec (called "WorldDB") that scales the Ripple concept to everyone in the world. I haven't read it in a while and don't remember exactly how it works. It's different enough from the existing XRP Ledger that moving from one to the other would be non-trivial.

There are also some other interesting things the Ripple research team has experimented with, like sidechains/sub-ledgers for XRP, which could be linked to the production ledger via Interledger.

For the time being, Ripple is focused on improving liquidity, volume, and usability of the XRP Ledger while decentralizing the validators. Making rippled use fewer resources for the current usage pattern may be part of that. It's a tricky dance to gauge resource limits and move preemptively without wasting too much effort optimizing things that don't need optimizing.

I'd love to know what the design approach was back then, and how things may have changed along the way to accommodate various regulation/privacy concerns, etc.

Would also love to hear more about WorldDB - but I digress :D 

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10 hours ago, yxxyun said:

That means hooks will not introduced to the XRPL mainnet, XRPL Labs need to launch their own sidechain.

It does not mean that they *won't* be added to the mainnet, just that they don't *need* to be added to the mainnet. The purpose of sidechains is that it gives a lot more flexibility.

-Matt

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33 minutes ago, hammertoe said:

It does not mean that they *won't* be added to the mainnet, just that they don't *need* to be added to the mainnet. The purpose of sidechains is that it gives a lot more flexibility.

-Matt

What about the AMM liquidity pool for DEX? is there any plan ? 

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1 hour ago, yxxyun said:

What about the AMM liquidity pool for DEX? is there any plan ? 

You mean like on a sidechain? I suppose the side chain could add whatever they wanted. AMMs are just math, so I would think it's possible to replace the DEX with liquidity pools. But I think the good ones today all incorporate price feeds rather than exclusively rubbing on math to keep them from getting out of whack. So then you start getting into oracles.

I wouldn't want to get rid of the DEX on the XRPL, order books are better for people who know what they're doing. AMMs have become popular in DeFi because they essentially let retail passively trade without having to have the skill or intestinal fortitude to day trade (I know I have neither).

Oh! Why not both? A side chain that keeps the DEX and adds in liquidity pools. It can use the DEX price feed as an oracle to help keep the pools stable. If you want to go all out, the ledger will synthetically incorporate the pools into the order books.

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9 hours ago, King34Maine said:

Being able to abstract burdensome features away from the XRPL to prevent congestion/high fees on the main net like we've seen run-a-muck of the Ethereum platform makes plenty sense in my opinion. Reading David Schwartz's vision for Federated side-chain made it seem as if they are just now exploring this new feature. However, I suspect that Ripple already has a fully operational federated side-chain version built and ready to go for its Private XRPL Ledgers for CBDCs. I expect they will copy and paste a good portion to utilize for the XRPL main net. 

Yeah, I won't speculate on how implemented they've got this, but you're right that this isn't David just spitballing ideas. Back in April when DevNull hosted that Meetup, Nik B had an update on what Ripple was up to and he briefly described how Federators would be used to connect private ledgers to the XRPL. This proposal is essentially the solution they've been developing for FIs and central banks.

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This proposal is written as connecting different networks all running some version of the XRPL. But hypothetically, couldn't a federator connect to Flare or Ethereum or whatever. Things get more complicated, and it would require more changes, but I don't see why it's not possible.

That looks a lot like Interledger. The Federators are basically the market makers with accounts on both ledgers in order to connect them. Payments then ripple through the federators to move across networks.

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