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Elon Musk says Tesla will stop accepting bitcoin for car purchases, citing environmental concerns


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2 hours ago, thinlyspread said:

And please please, for the love of christ almighty... don't anyone say... "but we can just use batteries to store energy!"

My brain will explode trying to explain the physics and engineering and economic challenges involved in storing even 1% of the world's grid power... :D 

 

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Yeah yeah, everyone claims this and that for storage and renewables every few years (along with the climate doomsday scenarios) and makes videos hyping it up (for ex. Gravitricity was the latest one in bonnie Scotland), but reality is it's not happening at any sort of scale. Nice niche off-grid tech though.

Anyone looking at a pie chart of energy sources gets an immediate reality check. Renewables + storage doesn't cut it (and in fact likely makes things WORSE in most cases). It's nuclear (or fossil fuels) or bust at this point. 

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Actually there's something funnier about a chart like this than is immediately obvious. Here's a clue: "low carbon" (note: NOT zero-carbon, or net-negative)... still need "carbon" (fossil fuels) to mine it, produce or refine it, distribute/deliver it, store it, maintain or upgrade it... you name it! :D (But also depressing I suppose if you're anti-CO2.)

Global-energy-vs.-electricity-breakdown-2048x1082.thumb.png.f20756eaa89b1f66d166cd39970b2558.png

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2 minutes ago, thinlyspread said:

Yeah yeah, everyone claims this and that for storage and renewables every few years (along with the climate doomsday scenarios) and makes videos hyping it up (for ex. Gravitricity was the latest one in bonnie Scotland), but reality is it's not happening at any sort of scale. Nice niche off-grid tech though.

Anyone looking at a pie chart of energy sources gets an immediate reality check. Renewables + storage doesn't cut it (and in fact likely makes things WORSE in most cases). It's nuclear (or fossil fuels) or bust at this point. 

100% agree (as a nuclear engineer)

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1 minute ago, Wolfaolyth said:

100% agree (as a nuclear engineer)

Oh how cool, what plant/site do (or did) you work at out of curiosity? 

(Obviously you do NOT have to answer me e.g. for privacy reasons etc, just being curious b/c I'm fascinated by nuclear tech.) 

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1 minute ago, thinlyspread said:

Oh how cool, what plant/site do (or did) you work at out of curiosity? 

(Obviously you do NOT have to answer me e.g. for privacy reasons etc, just being curious b/c I'm fascinated by nuclear tech.) 

In France and i won t give more data :rolleyes:

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7 hours ago, thinlyspread said:

which is why e.g. in Germany and California they now emit MORE CO2 because of so-called "renewables" ideology, which are really just a trojan horse for MORE coal/natgas.

Just in case you wanted to backup your claims.

 ghg-emissionsgrafik-trend-1990-2020-nach-ksg-einteilung1_0.thumb.png.d903965db30b6768a572926beece9b23.pngCalifornia-GHG.thumb.png.af82dae19594642989a370f3ed1f7905.png

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Matt Levine notes in his newsletter this morning... 

Quote

Coindesk has reported that Tesla’s refund policy for cars bought with Bitcoins is that you get back (1) your Bitcoins or (2) the dollar value at the time you paid, *at Tesla’s option*, which is a really cool embedded put option. Presumably if you buy a Tesla with Bitcoin and ask for your money back, if Bitcoin has gone up Tesla will give you the dollars (and keep the gains on Bitcoin), but if Bitcoin has gone down Tesla will give you your Bitcoins back (and avoid the losses). Arguably a better business model than “sell good cars at a fair price” would be “sell lots of terrible cars for Bitcoins, pay a lot of refunds, and profit from the embedded put option in your refund policy.” The cars could be a loss leader for Bitcoin volatility trading. Dynamically hedge it! 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, jbjnr said:

Just in case you wanted to backup your claims.

My point, if you'd actually read, was that they emit more CO2 than if they'd used nuclear baseload (like France) instead of trying and totally 100% predictably failing to run a grid on unreliable intermittent renewables (like California are now doing), wherein they then are forced to back up with *more* CO2 emitting sources (coal, natgas). This is not hard to understand! 

In short: German closures of nuclear power plants wipe out emissions reductions from less coal power. (It also made electricity way more expensive.)

And I still think they'll end up outputting more total net emissions if they don't reverse strategy (and frankly I don't trust all the stats, they're all cherry picked). Some coal plants are even coming back online – pure idiocy.

Edited by thinlyspread
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18 minutes ago, thinlyspread said:

My point, if you'd actually read, was that they emit more CO2 than if they'd used nuclear baseload (like France) instead of trying and totally 100% predictably failing to run a grid on unreliable intermittent renewables (like California are now doing), wherein they then are forced to back up with *more* CO2 emitting sources (coal, natgas). This is not hard to understand! 

In short: German closures of nuclear power plants wipe out emissions reductions from less coal power. (It also made electricity way more expensive.)

And I still think they'll end up outputting more total net emissions if they don't reverse strategy. The coal plants are now coming back – pure idiocy.

Dont worry for them they will really reduce their CO2 emission as promessed but in fact there is a trick : 

https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-electricity-statistics-idUSL8N2JF16X

They import way more electricity now, and the imported isn t taking into account in THEIR CO2 balance sheet.

 

Always the same old trick : playing with number, displace the problem, etc.

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