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How can an address hold or trade IOU balances without a trust line established?


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I'm noticing some transactions recently for an issued currency CSC (CasinoCoin) on the XRPL that I find strange - there is a buyer of CSC that has had successful buy orders for CSC by paying XRP, but with no trustline to the CSC issuer established.  As far as I can see, there has never been a trustline established to it.

Address in question is 

rUmF3HKaDWjRSatsQ1nfDTMocuuZQ4ntnM

You can see at bithomp or xrpscan that there is no trust line for CSC, and there are no balances for CSC shown, yet it has been successfully trading CSC for a number of days.  Example transactions:   58ED0F39550812DEF90B3EBEE575F7546F235730C1C13F388AF57545BF2117C2    and   991992D1D210AEF621F2412C364C31C2C275444B1ED270633A0FF25C44606535

I am puzzled as to how trading an IOU is possible on the DEX without any trustline to the issuer established.  My understanding was that a trustline was required to be set in order to trade that issued currency on the DEX.  Is my understanding wrong?  I've read the Issued Currencies section at XRPL.org but can't find specific reference to this.

In any case, how do you find out the current balance of CSC that this account holds?  The account_* websocket methods don't return anything useful as far as balances are concerned for this IOU on this account.  My analysis of the order transaction history suggest it holds 20000 CSC as of the time of this post.

Thanks for any pointers.

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To expand on this, a trustline is only needed for someone else to send you a currency. With trading, you initiated the trade offer yourself, so you don't have to set a trustline that you're willing to

10 hours ago, Malloy said:

You can see what that account holds here

https://xrpcharts.ripple.com/#/graph?rUmF3HKaDWjRSatsQ1nfDTMocuuZQ4ntnM

You don't need a trust line to trade on the XRPL...

To expand on this, a trustline is only needed for someone else to send you a currency. With trading, you initiated the trade offer yourself, so you don't have to set a trustline that you're willing to receive it.

Since you're watching the order books, it looks like the price of CSC is way too high on the DEX. At least compared to what CMC shows it at. Which price is "right"?

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1 hour ago, brianwalden said:

Since you're watching the order books, it looks like the price of CSC is way too high on the DEX. At least compared to what CMC shows it at. Which price is "right"?

Pretty much all the volume comes from the XRPL DEX now...I would take that price has the "right" one.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@FlyingFox

in documentation-

I think they define it as 

"implicit trust"

by submitting a trade offer you are implying your trust of that issuer/token, 

so a trust line is not needed.

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6 hours ago, paym8 said:

by submitting a trade offer you are implying your trust of that issuer/token, 

so a trust line is not needed.

That's pretty much it, but a trust line is still needed to hold a balance. It's just that one is created automatically because, as you pointed out, when creating an offer you are effectively stating that you trust the issuer enough to hold it.

From the xrpl.org documentation:

"The limit values of trust lines (See TrustSet) do not affect offers. In other words, you can use an offer to acquire more than the maximum amount you trust an issuer to redeem.

However, holding non-XRP balances still requires a trust line to the address issuing those balances. When an offer is taken, it automatically creates any necessary trust lines, setting their limits to 0. Because trust lines increase the reserve an account must hold, any offers that would require a new trust line also require the address to have enough XRP to meet the reserve for that trust line.

A trust line indicates an issuer you trust enough to accept their issued currencies as payment, within limits. Offers are explicit instructions to acquire certain issued currencies, so they are allowed to go beyond those limits."

Edited by efFofexX
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