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My 2019 phone call with the SEC


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2 hours ago, slinuxuzer said:

IMO it seems like at least to some degree the SEC does not see itself as the final arbiter of XRP being or not being a security.

Thank you for sharing. Good stuff. 

Based on our experiences and numerous public statements/filings, the SEC clearly sees itself as a final arbiter when it suits them, and they simply pass the buck when it doesn't. 

(Edited to fix a typo)

Edited by RobertHarpool
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4 minutes ago, slinuxuzer said:

I decided I would place a phone call to the SEC and just ask them out right. So I did exactly that. I reached out VIA phone, email, and web form.

I remember you doing this! I'm guessing you didn't record the phonecall!? At least on this site there would be evidence that you stated you called and spoke to them and got no clear answer.

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Just now, Chookstar said:

I remember you doing this! I'm guessing you didn't record the phonecall!? At least on this site there would be evidence that you stated you called and spoke to them and got no clear answer.

I did not record the phone call. 

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11 minutes ago, Chookstar said:

I remember you doing this!

Yeah I do too.

Maybe the SEC is leaning hard on the "your lawyer said X" as an attack vector. Pretty sure they sited that Opencoin had lawyers tell them XRP "could" be reconsidered a security.

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47 minutes ago, slinuxuzer said:

I have hesitated to write this post as I questioned its relevance, however with the recent response from the SEC regarding exchanges choosing to delist XRP on their own, now I think it is very relevant.

In early to mid 2019 the "XRP is a security" FUD was in full swing, it was annoying, its still annoying. I decided I would place a phone call to the SEC and just ask them out right. So I did exactly that. I reached out VIA phone, email, and web form. They were actually gracious enough to schedule a webex / zoom type meeting with me. During this phone call I spoke to a lady whose name I can't remember, she was very nice and eager to answer my questions. I asked in as plain language as I could "Does the SEC consider XRP a security?" She of course didn't know the answer right off, so she placed me on a lengthy hold and came back. She was a little less friendly, and deliberate after coming back, not rude, but IMO much more serious.

Her response was this "Ripple does not have any securities registered with the SEC", so I clarified my question. "I'm not asking if Ripple the company has securities registered, I am asking if the digital asset XRP is a security?" her response to this question was "the matter of if XRP is or is not a security is a legal question that I can not answer in this phone call and you should seek legal counsel to help you determine that"

The reason I chose to share this now, is her answer to the second question is very similar to the most recent response from the SEC, and IMO it seems like at least to some degree the SEC does not see itself as the final arbiter of XRP being or not being a security.

It sounds as if you made some posts on XRPChat?  As first step can you locate them as they corroborate your story and the approx date of the phone call.  This is good evidence of SEC were not giving straight answers to the enquiring public.   The fact that the conversation was done by appointment their must be a record of the conversation and recording.   This is exactly the sort of stuff SEC are trying to withhold, so having specific occasion makes it a lot easier for Ripple lawyers to demand a copy for their defence. 

Surely if SEC's case is that BG and CL, and any reasonable person should have been able to determine for themselves that XRP was a security, then SEC themselves should have been able to answer the same question to a member of the public making an investment in XRP.  As such I think your story is important evidence.

Also the change in mood of the receptionist seems to indicate that this question was a hot potato inside SEC.  

Once you have put your evidence together you should send to to Deaton and Ripple to use

Edited by Julian_Williams
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Imagine if you called up the police and were like, I'm trying to run a legitimate business. I've got this drug (let's say kava, that could hypothetically be in some jurisdiction's gray zone) that's becoming popular, but the laws don't explicitly mention it by name. Can you tell me, is this legal to sell or not?

Imagine if they told you it was between you and your lawyer to decide and let you go on selling it for years until one day they busted you for it.

Edited by brianwalden
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The SEC are just a bunch of strong arm men for elites. Ripple were mugged by a bunch of cowards three days before Xmas, the cowards then ran off, whilst leaving some of their friends in place to try and steal any wallets they could find, all done above board and legally of course. Highwaymen of old would be proud, now it's up to Ripple and some friends, plus some cunning legalese linguistics to protect ourselves from these thieves cheats and liars, masquerading as public do-gooders.

Edited by HAL1000
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and here is my response from the sec, after my 4th email, faxes & tweets, I was too scared to call  :newblush:

Quote

Thank you for your March 1 and March 3, 2021 emails to U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Acting Chairman Allison Herren Lee, and Commissioners Hester M. Peirce, Elad L. Roisman, and Caroline A. Crenshaw.  Your correspondence has been forwarded to the SEC’s Office of Investor Education and Advocacy (OIEA) for response.

We appreciate your informing us of your concerns regarding Ripple et. al.  As you may know, on December 22, 2020, the SEC filed a complaint against Ripple and two of its executives alleging that they had raised over $1.3 billion through an unregistered, ongoing digital asset securities offering.  The complaint alleges that Ripple raised funds, beginning in 2013, through the sale of digital assets known as XRP in an unregistered securities offering to investors in the U.S. and worldwide. The complaint also alleges that the defendants failed to register their offers and sales of XRP or satisfy any exemption from registration, in violation of the registration provisions of the federal securities laws. 

 

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This just re-inforces what the SEC are saying, though I don't like it ie that they are not claiming that XRP is a security, they are stating that Ripple at certain times sold XRP as if they were unregistered securities. Joe Public have been buying digital assets ie cryptocurrency from exchanges and these are not classified as securities - yet. The SEC are after Ripple, Larsen and Garlinghouse, but the complexity of all this has caught many in the cross fire and scared off the US based exchanges, with the odd exception.  

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3 hours ago, mistatee2000 said:

This just re-inforces what the SEC are saying, though I don't like it ie that they are not claiming that XRP is a security, they are stating that Ripple at certain times sold XRP as if they were unregistered securities. Joe Public have been buying digital assets ie cryptocurrency from exchanges and these are not classified as securities - yet. The SEC are after Ripple, Larsen and Garlinghouse, but the complexity of all this has caught many in the cross fire and scared off the US based exchanges, with the odd exception.  

The SEC could simply state this publicly to remove the legal limbo, but they won't.

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On 3/16/2021 at 1:56 PM, brianwalden said:

The SEC could simply state this publicly to remove the legal limbo, but they won't.

They might have done if Ripple had contributed to their pension funds!!!!!! This in the light of the latest revelations regarding Etherium being declared not a security by Hinman who was getting a huge pension from Simpson Thatcher, a member of the Etherium Alliance.

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