FLR IOUs trading at 92 cents(!), 2XRP(!) each on Bitrue - wtf is going on???

[Seoulite]

I'm gonna keep coming back to this until it starts to make sense. The FLR IOU price is mooning. I mean....what??? It's being valued at twice the price of XRP! I feel like I'm losing my damn mind here. I mean even if this is all just manipulation and pumping, where are the sellers??? Is everyone convinced that this thing is going to $10 so they have diamond hands??? Why isn't every XRP holder on Bitrue dumping this thing right now? I'm asking because I bought on Bitrue and Poloniex at a significantly lower price than this, and I'm wondering what I should do. I'm nervous, because the chart is at extreme levels and none of it makes sense. Help me out somebody.

[MQB]

None of any crypto's price makes any sense.

Did you see the prices of some of the utility coins, i.e. BAT/RVN/ENJ/VET/CHZ/DENT/BNB/AVA?

They're the ones skyrocketing. Also IOTA/ZIL/QKC/HOT that intends to solve the scalability/speed/cost issues of BTC. They're the ones that'll go very very high.

Get some of them when they're still cheap!

Edited March 12, 2021 by MQB

[Seoulite]

3 minutes ago, MQB said:

None of any crypto's price makes any sense.

Did you see the prices of some of the utility coins, i.e. BAT/RVN/ENJ/VET/CHZ/DENT/BNB/AVA?

They're the ones skyrocketing. Also IOTA/ZIL/QKC/HOT that intends to solve the scalability/speed/cost issues of BTC. They're the ones that'll go very very high.

Get some of them when they're still cheap!

But those coins are actually doing something. They are actually live networks. This thing is not even live! That's what I can't get my head around. And everyone who owns it on Bitrue got it for FREE. Imagine if everyone's buying price for XRP was zero. How big do you think the selling pressure would be? This is why I just can't figure out why people are not selling as fast as they can...

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Seoulite said:

But those coins are actually doing something. They are actually live networks. This thing is not even live! That's what I can't get my head around. And everyone who owns it on Bitrue got it for FREE. Imagine if everyone's buying price for XRP was zero. How big do you think the selling pressure would be? This is why I just can't figure out why people are not selling as fast as they can...

A few thoughts:

Most of crypto is just speculation as we all know. This is no different. IOUs don’t mean anything, really. 

That said, at best this price is probably representative of 15% supply, so it’s about a third of XRP price. It’s still crazy. 

Lastly, selfishly, I hope FLR launches at a lower price and stays low for the next three years because in the U.S., taxes are going to be a b**** ☹️

[brianwalden]

20 minutes ago, Ripley said:

A few thoughts:

Most of crypto is just speculation as we all know. This is no different. IOUs don’t mean anything, really. 

That said, at best this price is probably representative of 15% supply, so it’s about a third of XRP price. It’s still crazy. 

Lastly, selfishly, I hope FLR launches at a lower price and stays low for the next three years because in the U.S., taxes are going to be a b**** ☹️

On taxes? Aren't they worth zero when you first receive them? They won't have a value until a few seconds later when people start selling them.

[brianwalden]

I don't know what's going on. I can't imagine that will be the price when Flare goes live. When Stellar launched, people were getting their free tokens and selling them as fast as they could.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, brianwalden said:

On taxes? Aren't they worth zero when you first receive them? They won't have a value until a few seconds later when people start selling them.

The value is based on when it is available for trading + in our possession. It's technically possible that by the time they enter our wallets, trading already starts and has some value. After all, there are hundreds of thousands of wallets and dozens of exchanges. 

Even if that first 15% airdrop has zero value, we are still on track to get another 15% through the rest of the year (a total of roughly 33%) and this is going to go on for another two years at roughly 33% each. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Ripley said:

The value is based on when it is available for trading + in our possession. It's technically possible that by the time they enter our wallets, trading already starts and has some value. After all, there are hundreds of thousands of wallets and dozens of exchanges. 

Even if that first 15% airdrop has zero value, we are still on track to get another 15% through the rest of the year (a total of roughly 33%) and this is going to go on for another two years at roughly 33% each. 

This is why in the US, we need a better framework for taxing crypto. 

Our government clearly doesn’t have the hang of things yet.

We shouldn't be taxed until exiting to Fiat. 

Imagine having an asset that when you receive it from an airdrop costs 1 dollar. You pay taxes on the current value. Then, two months later the price drops to 25 cents. So not only do you pay taxes on an unrealized gain, but then could potentially go into negative territory because of the taxes you initially paid for the airdrop. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Crypto is a new asset class and should be treated differently. Crypto to crypto should not be taxed and it will allow for markets to be more fluid with activity. Crypto gains back to fiat should be taxed. 

I really hope our government gets it together. We really need them to help and mature this market. 

[brianwalden]

11 minutes ago, Ripley said:

The value is based on when it is available for trading + in our possession. It's technically possible that by the time they enter our wallets, trading already starts and has some value. After all, there are hundreds of thousands of wallets and dozens of exchanges. 

Even if that first 15% airdrop has zero value, we are still on track to get another 15% through the rest of the year (a total of roughly 33%) and this is going to go on for another two years at roughly 33% each. 

Good point. It's ok. I started using Nexo this year so I'm going to have to use one of those services for filling next year no matter what I do. Am I going to have to estimate my taxes and pay ahead? We already owed money this year, I don't want an underpayment penalty.

[brianwalden]

2 minutes ago, Cambridge said:

This is why in the US, we need a better framework for taxing crypto. 

Our government clearly doesn’t have the hang of things yet.

We shouldn't be taxed until exiting to Fiat. 

Imagine having an asset that when you receive it from an airdrop costs 1 dollar. You pay taxes on the current value. Then, two months later the price drops to 25 cents. So not only do you pay taxes on an unrealized gain, but then could potentially go into negative territory because of the taxes you initially paid for the airdrop. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Crypto is a new asset class and should be treated differently. Crypto to crypto should not be taxed and it will allow for markets to be more fluid with activity. Crypto gains back to fiat should be taxed. 

I really hope our government gets it together. We really need them to help and mature this market. 

I was thinking about this recently. The system is workable for stocks because you sell them for dollars. You can set aside your estimated taxes from the profits of the sale before you buy some new stock. But crypto doesn't work that way, you're often selling one crypto for another, and selling a portion of that to pay for taxes triggers another taxable event.

I'm with you, the taxes should be paid based on when money goes back out into the real world. Whether that's getting converted into "real" money or used for a purchase. You pay taxes on your value coming out minus the original value you put in.

Oh, if they ever wanted to make it simple, they'd let you deduct all the funds you put into crypto as an expense for that year. Then wherever you pull money out, you pay taxes on the full amount. No having to calculate how much it gained since you bought it.

Of course, at some point if they ever want to let cryptos be used for purchases on a large scale, they will need to reclassify them. You can't have every purchase be a taxable event.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, brianwalden said:

Good point. It's ok. I started using Nexo this year so I'm going to have to use one of those services for filling next year no matter what I do. Am I going to have to estimate my taxes and pay ahead? We already owed money this year, I don't want an underpayment penalty.

Look into IRS Safe Harbor to postpone most of your taxes to April of the next year without penalty. Don’t forget to prepay your state taxes too.

[SauronRings]

2 hours ago, Cambridge said:

This is why in the US, we need a better framework for taxing crypto. 

Our government clearly doesn’t have the hang of things yet.

We shouldn't be taxed until exiting to Fiat. 

Imagine having an asset that when you receive it from an airdrop costs 1 dollar. You pay taxes on the current value. Then, two months later the price drops to 25 cents. So not only do you pay taxes on an unrealized gain, but then could potentially go into negative territory because of the taxes you initially paid for the airdrop. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Crypto is a new asset class and should be treated differently. Crypto to crypto should not be taxed and it will allow for markets to be more fluid with activity. Crypto gains back to fiat should be taxed. 

I really hope our government gets it together. We really need them to help and mature this market. 

In my country you aren’t taxed on anything bar profit and you only get taxed once you receive the fiat currency and declare the taxes on your end of year at which point you pay capital gains tax the same on every investment @33% of all profit made. Seems unreasonable that you’re expected to pay tax on a position that is very much still open would be like taxing a company or individual on stocks they owns current value instead of waiting till sale and taxing profits 

[Julian_Williams]

I cannot see that it is possible to tax a currency, especially a pan-national one.  I suppose one can take a snap shot and tax that, but say you are not buying and selling on exchanges but you are buying and selling goods in XRP, providing services in XRP    XRP is a currency fluctuating by the hour?  how can you tax that?  It is like trying to tax fluctuations in the international rates for your dollars?

In Britain we get taxed on gains, which is just about possible whilst the tokens have no utility, but once utility gets mixed in they are just tokens going round in flywheels in the system Untaxable. 

[brianwalden]

2 minutes ago, Julian_Williams said:

I cannot see that it is possible to tax a currency, especially a pan-national one.  I suppose one can take a snap shot and tax that, but say you are not buying and selling on exchanges but you are buying and selling goods in XRP, providing services in XRP    XRP is a currency fluctuating by the hour?  how can you tax that?  It is like trying to tax fluctuations in the international rates for your dollars?

In Britain we get taxed on gains, which is just about possible whilst the tokens have no utility, but once utility gets mixed in they are just tokens going round in flywheels in the system Untaxable. 

In the US only gains are taxed. But cryptos are considered assets, so each exchange is taxed even if you're not selling for dollars. Airdrops and free stock for joining a broker are considered income, so you have to pay taxes on them. From that point on you only pay taxes on the gains when you sell them. Even foreign currency gains are taxed here. Heck, technically, if you barter your eggs for your neighbor's sugar and the sugar you get is worth more than what you paid for the eggs, you owe taxes on the gains. Our tax laws are not made for a multi-currency world.

But I've led us down a rabbit hole. What do you think about the price of FLR?

[brianwalden]

Sorry for getting back on taxes, but if FLR debuts super high, like $1, wait for it to stabilize at $.01 or whatever its real price will be, then sell it for a "loss" and buy it back. You can deduct the difference and the slippage from selling it and buying it back. Man, taxes are going to be a nightmare next year.