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SEC v Ripple Pre-trial audio


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Bitstamp listed XRP in 2017, so I cant imagine them asking the SEC 2 years later for approval.  

 

 

UPHOLD----listed XRP March 2018

KRAKEN -----listed XRP 2013

 

not sure when Binance.US became a thing (maybe 2020) so another possibility 

 

i think these are the major exchanges referenced 

 

*these are just basic google searches so don't shoot me if inaccurate

Edited by Babelly
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On March 24, 2019 I emailed the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission's Office of Investor Education and Advocacy through their contact system and pointedly asked "Is XRP a security?" They said there had not been any such determination. Unfortunately I had a email hiccup over a year ago and I lost a lot of emails. I only have the SECs acknowledgement of receipt of my question.

But ... 

After the SEC filed a complaint against Ripple, I complained to the SEC..... Why are you claiming that XRP was a security 8 years ago, but you didn't tell me so last year. This was their response: 

 

Dear Dr. Harpool: 

Thank you for contacting the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). 

As we had responded to you in our response to your March 24, 2019 correspondence, the SEC's Office of Investor Education and Advocacy (OIEA) was not able to inform you that XRP was a security because the SEC did not issue a determination that the cryptocurrency XRP was a security at that time.  As also noted, whether a cryptocurrency is considered a security will depend on the characteristics and use of the cryptocurrency.  Finally, we also directed your attention to Chairman Jay Clayton's statement regarding cryptocurrencies and initial coin offerings at  https://www.sec.gov/news/public-statement/statement-clayton-2017-12-11.

Sincerely, 

Kathleen Kim 
Special Counsel 
Office of Investor Education and Advocacy 
U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission 
(800) 732-0330 
http://www.sec.gov
www.investor.gov
www.twitter.com/SEC_Investor_Ed
 

 

This is why the SEC's argument about Ripple not following their lawyers advice in 2012 and contacting the SEC is DOA. 

 

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9 minutes ago, RobertHarpool said:

@Babelly

My money is on Coinbase. If my memory serves correctly, they started working with XRP at this precise time. 

I absolutely agree that the reference is to coinbase and I seriously doubt that was the first time.  You can complain about CB all you want but they are very particular about staying in the legal framework.  The bitcoin cash fiasco was enough for them.  Remember coinbase big claim for not listing ripple earlier was that it may be deemed a security.  So what gave them the assurance to go ahead with the listing?  My take is CB probably sought guidance from the SEC on numerous occasions with little to no response and probably finally gave in because the competition was listing XRP.

 

Edited by RikkiTikki_is_Back
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23 minutes ago, RobertHarpool said:

On March 24, 2019 I emailed the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission's Office of Investor Education and Advocacy through their contact system and pointedly asked "Is XRP a security?" They said there had not been any such determination. Unfortunately I had a email hiccup over a year ago and I lost a lot of emails. I only have the SECs acknowledgement of receipt of my question.

But ... 

After the SEC filed a complaint against Ripple, I complained to the SEC..... Why are you claiming that XRP was a security 8 years ago, but you didn't tell me so last year. This was their response: 

 

Dear Dr. Harpool: 

Thank you for contacting the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). 

As we had responded to you in our response to your March 24, 2019 correspondence, the SEC's Office of Investor Education and Advocacy (OIEA) was not able to inform you that XRP was a security because the SEC did not issue a determination that the cryptocurrency XRP was a security at that time.  As also noted, whether a cryptocurrency is considered a security will depend on the characteristics and use of the cryptocurrency.  Finally, we also directed your attention to Chairman Jay Clayton's statement regarding cryptocurrencies and initial coin offerings at  https://www.sec.gov/news/public-statement/statement-clayton-2017-12-11.

Sincerely, 

Kathleen Kim 
Special Counsel 
Office of Investor Education and Advocacy 
U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission 
(800) 732-0330 
http://www.sec.gov
www.investor.gov
www.twitter.com/SEC_Investor_Ed
 

 

This is why the SEC's argument about Ripple not following their lawyers advice in 2012 and contacting the SEC is DOA. 

 

Another great example of reaching out to SEC for confirmation, which they failed to inform the public of XRP being used as a security.  This doesn't logically make sense, why they feel they can dodge confirming this answer for years as a regulatory agency when directly asked.  But, then file lawsuit years later saying XRP was actually being sold as a XRP during the same time frame.

There are really only two options:

1. XRP was truly never being sold as a security- SEC was correct for the last few years reinsuring investors they had no evidence or ruling that XRP was being sold as a security.

2. XRP was truly sold as a security in the past- SEC failed to inform stakeholders for the last few years when reached out to, that there was evidence or scenarios where XRP was being sold as a security.  When in fact SEC had evidence and filed a lawsuit in 2020 stating XRP was being sold as a security during this timeframe.

 

I hope the Ripple legal team can use examples like yours to further strengthen their case.

 

Edited by wogojump
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27 minutes ago, RobertHarpool said:

On March 24, 2019 I emailed the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission's Office of Investor Education and Advocacy through their contact system and pointedly asked "Is XRP a security?" They said there had not been any such determination. Unfortunately I had a email hiccup over a year ago and I lost a lot of emails. I only have the SECs acknowledgement of receipt of my question.

But ... 

After the SEC filed a complaint against Ripple, I complained to the SEC..... Why are you claiming that XRP was a security 8 years ago, but you didn't tell me so last year. This was their response: 

 

Dear Dr. Harpool: 

Thank you for contacting the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). 

As we had responded to you in our response to your March 24, 2019 correspondence, the SEC's Office of Investor Education and Advocacy (OIEA) was not able to inform you that XRP was a security because the SEC did not issue a determination that the cryptocurrency XRP was a security at that time.  As also noted, whether a cryptocurrency is considered a security will depend on the characteristics and use of the cryptocurrency.  Finally, we also directed your attention to Chairman Jay Clayton's statement regarding cryptocurrencies and initial coin offerings at  https://www.sec.gov/news/public-statement/statement-clayton-2017-12-11.

Sincerely, 

Kathleen Kim 
Special Counsel 
Office of Investor Education and Advocacy 
U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission 
(800) 732-0330 
http://www.sec.gov
www.investor.gov
www.twitter.com/SEC_Investor_Ed
 

 

This is why the SEC's argument about Ripple not following their lawyers advice in 2012 and contacting the SEC is DOA. 

 

I really appreciate your info. SEC is a mess, after 2nd March, it has new chairman, hopefully l, the law suit will be settled.

Your email is a great proof, it will certainly very helpful for Ripple legal team if you can give it to them. No judge in the world allow the lawsuit continue after reading your email.

Also, it seems that some SEC officers don't agree with the lawsuit as well

 

Edited by Jack21
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25 minutes ago, RobertHarpool said:

 

As also noted, whether a cryptocurrency is considered a security will depend on the characteristics and use of the cryptocurrency. 

 

They had 8 years to examine that "characteristics and use of the cryptocurrency"

Pffffft .... what an argument .... Or let's put it in other words: WHO HAS TO DO THAT FOR A JOB????

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7 hours ago, kanaas said:

Yeah, and if it's that, then I really wonder what (and even more why) they have to hide .... makes me curious.

Because what probably happened is people with very deep pockets went to them and said 'Hey we are planning to use this thing to fleece the sh*t out of the plebs so if you could not get in our way that would be great, also we'll cut you in on some action' and the SEC said sure thing.

The only thing that worries me about this whole thing is that most of us are in developed countries where we expect things like justice, rationality, impartiality, fairness, etc to actually matter in these cases. But as I said elsewhere the US is in many areas no longer a first world country, and all it could take is someone with enough money to go over to the judge and say hey yeah if you could destroy Ripple for us that would be great, and it could happen.

I'm being 100% serious. It seems blindingly obvious that the SEC case is very weak, but that might not count for anything.

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7 hours ago, Seoulite said:

Because what probably happened is people with very deep pockets went to them and said 'Hey we are planning to use this thing to fleece the sh*t out of the plebs so if you could not get in our way that would be great, also we'll cut you in on some action' and the SEC said sure thing.

... and that kids is how BTC & ETH were deemed to be "not a security".

So I bought BTC with our life savings, and please finish your cereal for dinner. It's all we can afford now that the bubble popped

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15 hours ago, Babelly said:

Bitstamp listed XRP in 2017, so I cant imagine them asking the SEC 2 years later for approval.  

 

 

UPHOLD----listed XRP March 2018

KRAKEN -----listed XRP 2013

 

not sure when Binance.US became a thing (maybe 2020) so another possibility 

 

i think these are the major exchanges referenced 

 

*these are just basic google searches so don't shoot me if inaccurate

Coinbase. 

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