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"Flare Finance is a dog fight"


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NB: Flare Finance is a separate entity from the Flare Network/Foundation, just as an ERC20 token is separate from the platform it runs on, ie Ethereum.

I found this text on the Flare Foundation Discord: Invite link. It was written by someone called Disgruntled Beta Tester (not me). I have no idea if he's right, I just think these views need an airing because many XRP holders will have some skin in this game.

Quote

Tech Crunch Headline on Twitter Saturday January 23rd.
"The SEC is single handedly wrecking the next stage of technology development" Michael Arrington (Arrington XRP Capital)

Major News Headline (Coming Summer 2021)
Flare Finance single handedly destroyed the new Flare Network before it got off the ground. 

What the Flare network is selling is unity in the crypto space. They want to bring everyone in and will unlock the trapped Financial Energy in any (all) block chains. Flare can work with everyone and everyone can grow and prosper.

These are current videos from the XRP community about the Flare Network. The attitude of professionalism and spirit of help and cooperation is obvious.

XRP Rewards from Flare Networks Spark Token Delegation Members Discussion, $FLR DeFi, Flare Fusion
crypto Eri
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqJogN1U9Ok

"Unlocking Financial Energy" - The Discussion Begins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1DLZmXjjYI&t=535s
Mickey B. Fresh *The DeFi Standard*

What Flare Finance is selling is a dog fight. 
My suggestion for the Flare Finance Slogan: “We will plunder anyone who is not clever, shrewd and light on their feet. We will financially destroy anyone who is not completely on the top of the game. Then we will throw their broken bleeding body into the middle of our dog fight to be ripped to shreds and eaten by blood thirsty mongrels.” 

This was a post on the Flare Finance Beta Discord server on Saturday January 23rd.    “BTFD!!!!!!!!”
I may be dumb but I had to look that up on the internet. This is what I found. I think this is a perfect representation of Flare Finance. 
BTFD - "Buy The F*#!ING Dip" (Official Music Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4v8rLEI4Pg

After working with the Flare Finance Beta Group for the last three weeks my opinion is that Flare Finance does not have a modicum of the class that the XRP community has as a whole. If Flare Finance becomes a flagship enterprise and a lynchpin of the Flare Network, The Flare Network will crash into a Flaming Ball of Fire on the launch pad. 

Flare Finance should come with a warning. I’ve borrowed one From Dante’s Inferno:  
Dante heard this as he passed through the gate of Hell, which bears the inscription,
 "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate", "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."

Just One Man’s Opinion… 

Would anyone with experience of Flare Finance care to give their reactions? By experience, I mean something rather more in-depth than just having watched their weird, crappy YT video.

EDIT: Delvin, the COO of FF has posted measured and mature replies and links on the Flare Network Discord. They make for interesting reading.

Edited by PunishmentOfLuxury
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Hi, I will paste my direct respose from the Flare Network main chat after breaking down the original message for full transparency. Everyone is entiteld to their opinions, but if we were doing a bad job since launching publicly in October, becoming a "flagship enterprise and a lynchpin of the Flare Network" would never be in the conversation. As quite literally the first group to recognize the immense potential that XRP+Flare had, long before all the exchange support/hype brought in a herd of people who mostly care about a free payday, we were investing our time & resources into creating tools that ehance the network for all participants including other developers. This is counter intuitive if we really cared about maintaining some competitive edge.


You can find our work cited in Flare's github repo (https://github.com/flare-eng/coston/commit/3d823e153d06b55ee821d76172c65c903dc31132) here's the commit where they replaced MetaMask (built for ETH) with we built for the Flare Community (FlareScan).

I'll start this with the original comment. The attached file ```message.txt```  is the "Quoted" text posted by PunishmentOfLuxury.

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1. To directly address this message. "I HODL a good bit of XRP and you are a bright light at the end of a very long tunnel."
I HODL more than a good bit of XRP myself and I have never once felt like I was in a dark tunnel. Infact I have continued to invest, building utility and growing my stack (not financial advice) completely unbothered by the events transpiring becasue I'm not focused or bothered in the slightest by the daily fluctuations of my portfolio value. The underlying tech remains unchanged regardless of Jay Clayton's choices or the outcome of the case itself. If you understood that XRP and Ripple are completely different things, you wouldn't feel like the sky was falling. Let's continue to unpack this while keeping @Disgruntled Beta Tester's self proclaimed, hyper emotional state likely caused by irrational/uninformed investing (spending more than you can afford to lose and not understanding the nature of what you've invested in) in mind.

2. "I'm also one of the beta testers for the Flare Finance Text. (typo?) I was going to DM this message below to Flare Finance on Twitter but No DM's."
This statement makes me think you aren't actually a beta tester... If you were then why would you say "I was going to DM this message below to Flare Finance on Twitter but No DM's"

Here are several pages of DMs too many to post all proving we do indeed have twitter DM's, making the entire premise the document was shared under completely false.
  

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On top of the fact we do have DM's, there are a plethora of #channels in the beta server with learning materials, (articles, youtube videos, tutorials) and a community that's active nearly 24/7. This includes admins from all different timezones, who are readily available to help, troubleshoot or talk strategy within the closed beta community. The group is full of talented, good natured individuals who have been working collaboratively to help us build a top notch suite of competitive products on the Flare Network. At the very least, Flare Finance is a showcase for developers and users from the growing list of supported networks to see to why they should also invest their time and energy towards growing the Flare Network. We are also present to be pinged directly in the main chats of all our channels if you would like to bring a comment, concern or suggestion. However, please consider the speed at which we are scaling to be a large factor in the time it takes to answer your request. Twitter is NOT the medium to connect over concerns so serious you believe the entire network is at risk. The codebase is stable and getting cleaner by the day. The feature set is being fine tuned to eliminate all the common user errors we've logged by allowing users to dive in and try to break it in their own way, without handheld directions then systematically eliminating bugs/iterating at a steady rate.

Since public launch in October, the raw amount of code we've pushed and community we've grown collaboratively is hard evidence of a highly skilled team who understands product/market/fit at a high level; + how to advertise effectively and engage users to generate genuine interest from real users. 

Website: https://flr.finance/
Discord: https://discord.gg/66SKMFtNV8
Telegram: https://t.me/FlrFinance
Help Desk: https://flrfinance.zendesk.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/FlrFinance & https://twitter.com/FlareScan

Block Explorer: https://flarescan.org/

FlareWrap (Two way Bridge Bewteen ETH Ropsten and Flare Coston): Fully operational 
FlareX (A low fee Dex that allows users to trustlesly trade FLR, FXRP, FLTC etc.): Fully operational 

FlareFarm: A fair launch distribution platform to enable developers/ or teams interested in deploying on Flare Network to bootstrap liquidity and users if they pass community governance voting.

Short Paper: https://flr.finance/static/media/FFShortPaper.b61a58ee.pdf

 

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3. How does "I HODL a good bit of XRP" become "I have a LOT of money invested in XRP" within the same sentence statement. Generally, I find when facts are not straight and easily repeatable they are not true. A matter of opinion though.  

4. "I understand you are separate projects but I'm not sure everyone will realize that?"

We make it perfectly clear and will even include this on a disclaimer users are forced to read and react to before swapping DFLR -> YFLR tokens. 

 

The XRP Community is important to us so I have taken a lot of time to prepare the contents of this reply to accurately represent our position with facts and data points. It would be great if any of the beta testers including @KarmaCoverage a long time XRP holder and Financial Engineer whos writings speak for themselves could give a light summary of your experience.

I have replied to this post directly in the Flare Network Discord chat with a breakdown of why I think we are making and will continue to make a positive impact of the network unlocking value for all FLR holders regardless if they choose to participate or not. The full transcript can be found here: 

I have extended an invitation to the DBT to try and find out what parts of his experience caused him to imagine a global decentrized network run by community governance could be "single handedly destroyed" by a protocol built on top of the network. The numerous food coin, rug pull scam devs joke projects built on Ethereum had no negative effects on the network. Comparatively, if you look at our body of work to date it compares favourably with some of the largest and most valueable protocols on the ETH blockchain and we will continue to strive to raise the standard for products, projects and protocols launching on the network after us.

https://discord.com/channels/743422808499028049/743422809111527456/802787732546912277


Original Comment
https://discord.com/channels/743422808499028049/743422809111527456/802740991269404682

The sensationalist headline OP notably changed after posting the baseless hit piece. https://discord.com/channels/743422808499028049/743422809111527456/802741552878452766

My case with statistical evidence of our positive contributions to the Flare Network.
https://discord.com/channels/743422808499028049/743422809111527456/802771896398774292

Responses to DBT from testers in Flare's community

https://discord.com/channels/743422808499028049/743422809111527456/802763692696797184

https://discord.com/channels/743422808499028049/743422809111527456/802845529343918091
 

As previously stated please feel free to contact us with and questions directly.

 

 

 

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Edited by Delvin
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@Delvin I can tell you that there are a few of us in The Zerpening who are in the test group, and we share our experiences periodically there. It's not been a heavy topic of conversation, but as questions might arise, the conversation shifts that way. There is a LOT of information to digest and understand between Flare & Flare Finance, but I've definitely noticed that people have been leaning into doing their research and diligence - more so than at the end of last year, as an example.

As far as my experience with Flare & Flare Finance separately - I've been in each projects' respective Telegram & Discord for a long while now. Have had some Q&A interaction with members of each team, and have always found the replies to be straightforward. I've been more active in Flare Finance Discord and, toward the end of last year, shared some minor critiques that I'd had at the time. The team addressed all of this directly and courteously, and I liked that they were open to both criticism and deep discussion. That I was invited to be a part of a focus group after this, I think says a lot about the integrity of the team, and I was always impressed with that. Since then, I've been in the testing group along with numerous other individuals - many of whom are familiar to most people that frequent this site.

With regard to my experience in the testing itself --- a quick one-word summary would be 'chaotic' --- but this is what I expected, and was under the impression from the start that the entire point of testing was to put this thing through it's paces and iron out the kinks. I think if you went into it with the idea that you'd be testing finished products, you would almost assuredly be disappointed. Likewise - if you've never used products similar to any of the three that we're testing, you might have expected a somewhat steep learning curve and to feel like you were getting lost along the way, or spinning your wheels. 

The group seems pretty evenly divided between two groups of people - those with a great deal of experience using these products, and those who have some or zero. I fit much more into the latter category, so any discussion of 'strategy' is one that I've been watching from the sidelines and learning from. Meanwhile I'm spending my time becoming more familiar with the products and platform, and digging into the fundamentals of DeFi in general. 

There are several members of the group who've taken time out of their days & nights to come up with instructional tools and videos, hosting live voice sessions, etc - it would be very hard for me to characterize this group on whole as anything other than eager and helpful. Similarly the team has been there every step of the way to answer questions, field bug reports and to quickly get to work fixing whatever it was that we broke :pardon:... I'm having a lot of fun actually, despite how frustrating it can be.

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9 hours ago, PunishmentOfLuxury said:

Would anyone with experience of Flare Finance care to give their reactions? By experience, I mean something rather more in-depth than just having watched their weird, crappy YT video.

Sure thing, I have/am in the FF beta. I was in the private beta, but didn't participate because I couldn't get my wallet, and MetaMask setup straight (time constraints). I have finally gotten to do a few SWAPs TXs in the current Beta, and while I'm not earnestly competing to win, I am mostly interested in testing out the technology. Keep in mind I have never actively traded XRP or any crypto. I like my fundamentals, things that dont change, and I try to follow the less stressful path of just buying an investment, crypto or otherwise, that I dont have to worry about too much and can just let it preform as it will. With this mindset, and XRP in my portfolio FF is very exciting and my Beta participation is rooted in my desire to understand how this XRP thing that I own, can be deployed using the FF tools, aka make my XRP gain more Utility Value and earn a cash flow. I've been saying for years that we will be able to earn passive income on our XRP asset, it was only a matter of time. Fortunately, the time is now.

There are 3 products being tested in the FF Beta, SWAPs & Liquidity Pools (LPs), Wrap (cross blockchain tokens), and Farm (mining cross blockchain). I have not played with it yet, but i'm most interested in Wrap, because it enables a functionality much like FXRP which can also work for IOUs bringing smart contract functionality to XRPL IOUs. This opens up all sorts of innovation potential, TONS.

There are ways to design XRPL IOUs in conjunction with Flare Network (FN) & FF products that should enable the creation of securities and derivatives not currently existing in crypto markets which are managed on FN... by FF smart contracts... which ultimately settle on XRPL, "the settlement layer".

Regarding the actual Beta, I still dont have MetaMask on my phone connected to my beta wallet yet, so I can only to TXs on my desktop. That said, FF & FN feel like Ripple Labs back in early 2013. There is obviously significant functionality that has not been available in such an economically efficient way. Just like Ripple/XRPL collapsed the TX cost of settlement to a "near zero marginal cost", so does FN collapse the TX cost of running a smart contract on FN to a "near zero marginal cost". The only real competition is Ethereum, and I dont think I need to explain the poor economics of TX cost issues with ETH. It is what it is.

Back in 2013 I could use RippleTrade to play with XRPL, then FinCEN came in and forced Ripple to take down RippleTrade which forced any XRPL participation into a command line interface, which is not my jam. I told the FF guys that what they have programmed for the Beta was on par or better than what Ripple had at inception. There is a good UI/UX once you get everything hooked up... no command line interface required. Plus they have 3-4 products (financial services) already built and live in their beta. That's impressive.

I wont speak much to the questions around their Anon status, and questions like "are they a scam" or "is this real" because either I've been fully fooled, and it is all a scam. or as I believe there is good quality work being done here and I'm simply interested in staying on top of it and not falling behind. If you are interested in making use of the Utility of your XRP, I'd encourage anyone to pay close attention to FN and FF. There is a of innovation and creation of Utility Value going on for the first time in several years IMHO.

Overall I'm very impressed! They have been quickly responsive to the Beta group's feedback on UI/UX improvements, like same day responsive. Thats impressive. They have been open and honest about what the systems currently do and dont. I'm not sure what more could be expected from an unfunded startup. Ive done a few unfunded startups and it's a tough slog, these guys strike me as doing well better than average. Hope that helps.

Edited by KarmaCoverage
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Another Beta Tester here.

KK and the Count have pretty much covered everything thankfully, as I hate a write up.

So far, I’m pleased by what I see. The team have been working endless hours and the whole community there are really helpful.

The product functions well and user experience is currently being monitored and improved throughout this testing phase.

I’ve yet to see any concerns and have been really impressed by what I have seen so far and I’m glad to be a part of it.

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Edited by Flintstone
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Just found this, so I'll chime in.  I am quite enjoying the beta testing experience so far and learning as I go. The community is helpful and has produced tutorials but there are no easy reference docs/ manuals that frame how FF works in operation so it is not a product most people could comfortably sit down and figure out how to navigate successfully on their own using real money. Successful operation still requires input from the other users for now. 

To their credit, they've opened the testing to a broad swath of people; some who have never used ETH wallets before, even more (like me) who are not familiar with defi systems and at times the Discord reflects this as you might imagine; 1000 impatient questions.  Walking in to this beta test experience unawares with no documents and anonymous founders unsure of how to operate things seems like it stressed the guy out.

But I think that's what makes it a great beta test, perfect for refining a product and seeing what happens when the real world intervenes. They have seemed far more organized and on the ball than some others I've been a part of and the community has gone to great lengths to be helpful.  It blows my mind that this is all an unfunded labor. From what I can see it has been managed competently and will offer exciting possibilities. 

Edited by WrathofKahneman
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A YT video that helps explain some of the future functionality of FF:

 

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FlareX enables users of the Flare Network to swap currencies and earn passive income providing liquidity to liquidity pools providing traders with Decentralized On Demand Liquidity. FlareFarm is a decentralized yield farming platform. Yield Farming is a fair token distribution model in which users stake one token to mine a pool of assets distributed via smart contract over time.

 

Edited by PunishmentOfLuxury
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After working with the Flare Finance Beta Group for the last three weeks my opinion is that Flare Finance does not have a modicum of the class that the XRP community has as a whole.

Sorry but... LOL! :D 

Edited by thinlyspread
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/24/2021 at 3:16 PM, CountZerpula said:

@Delvin I can tell you that there are a few of us in The Zerpening who are in the test group, and we share our experiences periodically there.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 3:35 PM, KarmaCoverage said:

Sure thing, I have/am in the FF beta. I was in the private beta, but didn't participate because I couldn't get my wallet, and MetaMask setup straight (time constraints). I have finally gotten to do a few SWAPs TXs in the current Beta, and while I'm not earnestly competing to win, I am mostly interested in testing out the technology.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 4:18 PM, Flintstone said:

Another Beta Tester here.

 

On 1/25/2021 at 4:44 AM, WrathofKahneman said:

Just found this, so I'll chime in.  I am quite enjoying the beta testing experience so far and learning as I go.

 

Hi guys! Do you know if there is still a possibility to join the beta test?

Tried to set up MetaMask following the instructions that were in the FF Medium article (https://flarefinance.medium.com/welcome-to-the-flare-finance-beta-test-f0c2796af444) but MetaMask always displays the error message: "Could not fetch chain ID. Is your RPC URL correct?" (Chain ID is set to 0x1 as in the article...)

I'm technically challenged (to put it mildly), so no idea if this is due to the test being finished (or FF not accepting new testers) or because of a glitch or for some other reason...

Your input would be much appreciated!

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38 minutes ago, Tako said:

Hi guys! Do you know if there is still a possibility to join the beta test?

Tried to set up MetaMask following the instructions that were in the FF Medium article (https://flarefinance.medium.com/welcome-to-the-flare-finance-beta-test-f0c2796af444) but MetaMask always displays the error message: "Could not fetch chain ID. Is your RPC URL correct?" (Chain ID is set to 0x1 as in the article...)

I'm technically challenged (to put it mildly), so no idea if this is due to the test being finished (or FF not accepting new testers) or because of a glitch or for some other reason...

Your input would be much appreciated!

Hey @Tako - that was for the closed beta, which has now ended - and some of those instructions changed along the way anyhow, was nothing you were doing wrong. 

There will be a public beta that's expected to begin soon (I believe mid-February, but don't quote me) ...  

 

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2 minutes ago, CountZerpula said:

Hey @Tako - that was for the closed beta, which has now ended - and some of those instructions changed along the way anyhow, was nothing you were doing wrong. 

There will be a public beta that's expected to begin soon (I believe mid-February, but don't quote me) ...  

 

Thanks, man! I need to up my game first by following them on twatter I guess! :D

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