SEC Acting Enforcement Director Marc P. Berger to Depart the Commission

[Gorgalosk 2,745]

Why doesn't anyone actually link the video of his speech so everyone can watch and form their own opinion?

 

https://www.media.mit.edu/posts/remarks-at-blockchain-event/

 

He clearly says "there's a strong case [re: xrp and ethereum being securities], but it's not about what I think.  I think there's a worthy public debate.

Discussion starts at around 13:00 for anyone who actually wants to watch and listen instead of bickering back and forth.

[HenrySeldom 683]

6 minutes ago, Gorgalosk said:

Why doesn't anyone actually link the video of his speech so everyone can watch and form their own opinion?

 

https://www.media.mit.edu/posts/remarks-at-blockchain-event/

 

He clearly says "there's a strong case [re: xrp and ethereum being securities], but it's not about what I think.  I think there's a worthy public debate.

Discussion starts at around 13:00 for anyone who actually wants to watch and listen instead of bickering back and forth.

He also mentions some facts that were true back then about how many nodes Ripple controls. That is not the case anymore and therefore XRP fails the last prong of the Howey Test. 

[Archbob 1,036]

The last prong is the promoter part and does your investment depends on the efforts of Ripple, in which, yes, it most certainly does. There's really not one prong that it clearly fails. I'd think the main argument is the 3rd condition, not the fourth.

[Jack21 151]

4 hours ago, Panopticon said:

 Not exactly, he said that cryptos like ETH and XRP could potentially been seen as securities, not that he believes they are.

eth and any PoS is more likely securities (smart contract, staking, farming, yield is very similar to dividend),

xrp is not.

[Gorgalosk 2,745]

7 minutes ago, Jack21 said:

eth and any PoS is more likely securities (smart contract, staking, farming, yield is very similar to dividend),

xrp is not.

You speak pretty confidently for someone who takes the opposite stance of the former head of the CFTC, newly appointed head of the SEC and professor from MIT.  I wish I could live life with such irrational and nonsensical confidence.

I noticed you joined the forum recently and have been posting quite a bit.  Maybe try posting less and ready and listening more?

[Jack21 151]

10 minutes ago, Gorgalosk said:

You speak pretty confidently for someone who takes the opposite stance of the former head of the CFTC, newly appointed head of the SEC and professor from MIT.  I wish I could live life with such irrational and nonsensical confidence.

I noticed you joined the forum recently and have been posting quite a bit.  Maybe try posting less and ready and listening more?

without a court decision, xrp is currently not securities in us. period.

Japan, UK (2021) ... firmly say xrp is not securities.

I have my right to post as any one else. block me if you don't want to see mine

---

we saw his opinion three years ago, not NOW

Edited Wednesday at 01:55 AM by Jack21

[Archbob 1,036]

3 hours ago, Gorgalosk said:

 

I noticed you joined the forum recently and have been posting quite a bit.  Maybe try posting less and ready and listening more?

He bought a lot of XRP at a high price and is desperate to get the price back up by any means possible. Just ignore his posts.

[stickynoodle69 11]

9 hours ago, Panopticon said:

 Not exactly, he said that cryptos like ETH and XRP could potentially been seen as securities, not that he believes they are.

He did say he thinks XRP is a security. But it's deeper than that. He is very knowledgeable of blockchain and Ripple. I think he is very open minded. 

 

9 hours ago, HenrySeldom said:

Let's see if you're smart enough to understand why I'm sharing this picture with you:

Yeah, but these two could be talking about anything. I mean how long ago was this? 

[JJJ2 396]

here

https://www.media.mit.edu/posts/remarks-at-blockchain-event/

he states:

min 13:55 btc probably not a security because of mining, and because of validation process during the mining, no initial token offering, no pre-mining. Same concenring LTC.

min 14:25 xrp and ether seem to have attributes of the howey test: money given over. Money given to ripple every month they sell out of the escrow, he questions if price is based on the expectation of profit. Ripple today (at the time of the speech in 2018) links to 16 market makers and they're doing a lot in increasing value of xrp for the beneift of holders of xrp and ripple which holds 61% of xrp (again it was 2018).

And he asks (min. 15:22) : is this price increase on the effort of others, or ripple? The ripple case seems to be the case (of a security): Ethereum foundation evolved into something else. It is still centralized but not as much as Ripple. "So I think there is still a strong case, but it is not as I think so, there is a worthy public debate about these issues"

Min 15:46 "second issue is token design. Is the there a design that is really about consumption and not about investment?" Is the token functional and is this functionality an important bit (my interpretation: but is it enough for defining it as designed for consumption?)

min 16:15 "third how should multi stage contracts happen?... Can you put a package around the token and so the package is the security, but the token later on is not? The SEC has not yet spoken on that and there's controversy around. Let's call this not yet determined"

Min  16:45: "and fourth, it's a new concept, can a security token transform into something else?... I'm kind of don't think this is gonna work. I don't think there's any precedent in the law for security to transform to be something else, but this is an issue on the table, so worth the debate"

In the other video (the university lecture of 2018, posted in twitter) he speaks about the use case of xrp, but does not go into the merit of it being a security or a commodity.

he simply states that if we transfer fiat to crypto and then crypto to fiat, but the crypto changes value, then there are costs. He says crypto is not technically a currency but he's going to treat it as currency for the purpose of his example. In case of ripple, what ripple does, is providing liquidity through the market makers to carry out the fiat transfer function.

So his thought is simply that there are some features of the xrp-package (ODL+ MM working to increase xrp value) that fall into the "security-case". Xrp as such is not a security.

The debate is more complicated than it may seem. This must not be negative for xrp and ripple, though.

Any conclusion is only premature. it depends much on the political will. It's always the same: push the limits in the grey region of the law, try to convince politics that there may be huge advantages in doing that and extend the law in order embrace the new situation in some form.

We will see which party is stronger: if banks are with ripple, then also the politics will be with ripple and find some formulation allowing what ripple is doing.