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Howto burn XRP?


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Hi all,

I read a lot about burning XRP lately, especially burning the XRP in escrow. I don't want to discuss if it must be burned or not, but i am curious about what it is exactly and how this can be executed. For this, I have found two tweets from David Schwartz (Ripple CTO):
 

burn1.png.7b63927bd1c8aadd1deaff89732b7d3e.png



burn2.png.70bac72489334c61e63fbe250f42b7ed.png

And: "XRP Ledger amendments require an 80% approval rating from the ledger’s validators. If an amendment stays above that threshold for two weeks, it is activated."

 

So, i read three options:

  • Paying it as a fee
  • Sending it to an account whose public key hash has insufficient entropy to have a corresponding private key anyone could ever find.
  • If the community wants it

But what does it mean exactly? How can it be executed? Are there any other options?
And what does 'burn' mean? Does it decreases max supply, or is it just that this XRP still exists but can't be accessed anymore? If I have lost my secret key, is my XRP 'burned'?

 

Edited by stuffie
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validators voting to burn Ripples or other peoples holdings?

so if you upset the xrp community you get your holdings burned?

SO how far up the popularity poll do you have to be to be exempt from losing it all?

Could an unpopular exchange have its XRP wallets burned.

where does the interference stop?

I see this as fatal if it ever happened. 

far better to persuade Ripple to burn stuff. 

I dont think the validators should interfere with anyones property, full stop. 

If bad actors are eliciting funds by manipulating the protocol or third party layers of interface then that is where the corrections, remedies, improvements should take place.

IE improve the integrity of the protocol , or investigate the bad actors and take action there.

Edited by paym8
adding text
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5 hours ago, stuffie said:

So, i read three options:

  • Paying it as a fee
  • Sending it to an account whose public key hash has insufficient entropy to have a corresponding private key anyone could ever find.
  • If the community wants it

But what does it mean exactly? How can it be executed? Are there any other options?

A fourth option: On any normal account, set a regular key pointing to one of the blackhole wallets (i.e. one with insufficient entropy), then disable the master key on the original account.

"Burning" is fundamentally to make the XRP provably inaccessible permanently. Paying it as a fee literally destroys the XRP and removes it from the ledger. Using a blackhole account will keep the burned XRP on the ledger but no-one will be able to access it; sites such as Coinmarketcap should not take the blackhole accounts into consideration when calculating the circulating supply.

It's not clear how the community might decide to burn Ripple's XRP if it was decided that that would go ahead. There's no existing method to forcibly burn XRP in an account that you don't own, so the XRPL rules would need to be changed. Perhaps as simple as designating a list of banned accounts whose transactions may no longer be validated, and populating that list with the relevant Ripple wallets.

Quote

If I have lost my secret key, is my XRP 'burned'?

No, because you can't prove that you've lost it, or that nobody else has found it, or will ever find it in the future. To be burned, it really needs to be cryptographically provable on the ledger.

4 hours ago, paym8 said:

where does the interference stop?

I see this as fatal if it ever happened. 

far better to persuade Ripple to burn stuff. 

I dont think the validators should interfere with anyones property, full stop. 

Yes, it would be a very big deal, and I'm sure that however a Ripple burn might be implemented, it would not be done in a way that would allow validators to subsequently apply the same rules to any other accounts. As in, I expect that the amendment would specifically target a list of Ripple accounts that would be hardcoded into the amendment, and there would be no way of using at against anyone else.

In this case, with the SEC looking specifically at Ripple's XRP, the benefit of the community burning them would be that it would prove that Ripple does not have ultimate control over the network, which helps (maybe) to prove Ripple's side of the case. If Ripple burned them, it doesn't really prove anything; it's not like it gets them off the hook for any of their past behaviour just by throwing their money away.

 

Edited by at3n
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8 hours ago, stuffie said:

Hi all,

I read a lot about burning XRP lately, especially burning the XRP in escrow. I don't want to discuss if it must be burned or not, but i am curious about what it is exactly and how this can be executed. For this, I have found two tweets from David Schwartz (Ripple CTO):
 

burn1.png.7b63927bd1c8aadd1deaff89732b7d3e.png



burn2.png.70bac72489334c61e63fbe250f42b7ed.png

And: "XRP Ledger amendments require an 80% approval rating from the ledger’s validators. If an amendment stays above that threshold for two weeks, it is activated."

 

So, i read three options:

  • Paying it as a fee
  • Sending it to an account whose public key hash has insufficient entropy to have a corresponding private key anyone could ever find.
  • If the community wants it

But what does it mean exactly? How can it be executed? Are there any other options?
And what does 'burn' mean? Does it decreases max supply, or is it just that this XRP still exists but can't be accessed anymore? If I have lost my secret key, is my XRP 'burned'?

 

The simplest, quickest and most straight forward way is you get your XRP off the exchanges put it in your hardware ledger then go outside light a fire and throw it in there. Voila burnt XRP in less than 10 minutes

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1 minute ago, solid102 said:

The simplest, quickest and most straight forward way is you get your XRP off the exchanges put it in your hardware ledger then go outside light a fire and throw it in there. Voila burnt XRP in less than 10 minutes

Must. Not. Take. The. Bait. 

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Everyone probably already knows this, but I've always been amazed at the bots that are set up to autotrade. You can see them in action at https://xrpcharts.ripple.com/#/transactions. They burn through a lot of tiny XRP all day long and have done this for years. Most of the transactions created and canceled are for highly improbable trades. I've never been able to figure out what they could possibly be used for except to consume XRP.

One side question - you used to be able to click on a transaction to see the details. Now I can't get anything to come up except 'transaction not found'. Anyone else notice this?

 

 

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17 hours ago, rocksout said:

Everyone probably already knows this, but I've always been amazed at the bots that are set up to autotrade. You can see them in action at https://xrpcharts.ripple.com/#/transactions. They burn through a lot of tiny XRP all day long and have done this for years. Most of the transactions created and canceled are for highly improbable trades. I've never been able to figure out what they could possibly be used for except to consume XRP.

It's basically market making. Say you expect the price to be X, then you put orders around X at X +/- $0.05, X +/- $0.1, X +/- $0.2 etc. Although the price is sometimes far off, it does sometimes happen that the orderbook is eaten all the way through this price. So, MM offers liquidity, but the more liquidity comes at the higher price

17 hours ago, rocksout said:

One side question - you used to be able to click on a transaction to see the details. Now I can't get anything to come up except 'transaction not found'. Anyone else notice this?

I noticed that too. It seems it takes its data from https://data.ripple.com, which for some reason is a bit lagging. The transaction is not available there yet and hence it shows as 'not found'. Maybe someone from Ripple can look at it.

 

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On 1/12/2021 at 9:35 PM, solid102 said:

The simplest, quickest and most straight forward way is you get your XRP off the exchanges put it in your hardware ledger then go outside light a fire and throw it in there. Voila burnt XRP in less than 10 minutes

giphy.gif

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7 hours ago, nikb said:

Re: transactions not showing up on xrpcharts.ripple.com:

Forget about xrpcharts.ripple.com. It's old and crusty and just not that great. There are a number of alternatives, including livenet.xrpl.org which you should definitely check out! It also comes in testnet and devnet variants, for all your testnet and devnet needs! :D

For an overview of running transactions and ledgers it's definitely eye-pleasing and an improvement. Also the account and network/validator explorer are far better. I think it captures almost all functionality from xrpcharts, but not all.. What it is missing is DEX visualisation and overview

AFAIK xrpcharts is the only source where all possible (synthetic) orderbooks from the DEX functionality are visualized. For me the only reason why I still go to that website. It would be great if that functionality is made available elsewhere. Maybe something for XRP Ledger Foundation to pick up..

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