Worst-case scenario for XRP?

[2ndtimearound]

1 hour ago, wogojump said:

This is not a true statement.  The SEC and Supreme Court do not currently have any legal precedence set yet defining this is a requirement in order for XRP to be clarified a security. So at this time, this cannot be used as a defining factor to confirm if XRP is a security. This will be for them to determine, not you.

They have other factors that they will be using determine if XRP is ultimately classified as a security: https://consumer.findlaw.com/securities-law/what-is-the-howey-test.html.  We will find out next year if and how much factors like XRPL transactions coming into play for final clarification on XRP being a security.

The thing is, XRP is used as a payment by so many third party companies.  I pay an exchange in XRP everytime I buy XRP.  I pay an exchange in XRP everytime I move XRP out of their exchange.  That's just two examples.  

[Guest]

Does anyone know what happens to the XRP that investors have on an exchange that suddenly decides to delist? 

I guess it would be wise to move all XRP to a wallet now...

Really sad. I think hodlers will be ok in the end but how long are we willing to wait? Thought things were about to get moving after years of sideways,uneventful movement in the charts. Very disappointing. 

[Guest]

This has been a painful investing lesson to diversify my portfolio. I will still hodl strong💪and hope for the best and hope that Jay Clayton's xmas sucks a big one, he is the real chicken here as he promptly resigns 🙃 Someone got badly burned and took cues from the Trump book of how to act like a baby when you lose. Makes you wonder what the real story is here 🤔

Edited December 24, 2020 by Guest

[wogojump]

1 hour ago, 2ndtimearound said:

The thing is, XRP is used as a payment by so many third party companies.  I pay an exchange in XRP everytime I buy XRP.  I pay an exchange in XRP everytime I move XRP out of their exchange.  That's just two examples.  

XRP does presently have additional functionality and use cases, that extend beyond typical securities.  If I had to place a bet, I would predict XRP will not be deemed as a security at the present time.  There are currently a few minor real use cases for retail investors of XRP, but these scenarios do exist like with using as a payment.

I am expecting SEC will have greater chances in court claiming Ripple violated security regulations in the past.  In the past Ripple used XRP very similarly to securities to fund their business and personal wealth, while at that time XRP having very little real use case benefits for retail investors.

Brad and Chris messed up big time with mass selling XRP in the past, prior to getting both SEC clarity and establishing real retail use cases for XRP.  They got greedy and made stupid decisions. So now they are facing consequences from their actions, which is also impacting XRP investors.

Edited December 24, 2020 by wogojump

[2ndtimearound]

1 hour ago, curlyfry said:

Really sad. I think hodlers will be ok in the end but how long are we willing to wait? Thought things were about to get moving after years of sideways,uneventful movement in the charts. Very disappointing. 

This is it - another year of XRP bear action is not palatable to me...better to be on the sidelines and wait for the news.

Edited December 24, 2020 by 2ndtimearound

[Ludwig_von_Kitteh]

8 minutes ago, wogojump said:

XRP does presently have additional functionality and use cases, that extend beyond typical securities.  If I had to place a bet, I would predict XRP will not be deemed as a security at the present time.  There are currently a few minor real use cases for retail investors of XRP, but these scenarios do exist like with using as a payment.

I am expecting SEC will have greater chances in court claiming Ripple violated security regulations in the past.  In the past Ripple used XRP very similarly to securities to fund their business and personal wealth, while at that time XRP having very little real use case benefits for retail investors.

Brad and Chris messed up big time with mass selling XRP in the past, prior to getting both SEC clarity and establishing real retail use cases for XRP.  They got greedy and made stupid decisions. So now they are facing consequences from their actions, which is also impacting XRP investors.

The only way they could create a large financial war chest was to sell XRP. They took a calculated risk and were finally discovered by the regulators. What I'm most concerned about is that this is the only way they can cash float Ripple Labs Inc. That is, they aren't making any significant revenue from their licensing agreements. While we don't know what their EBITDA is, I can only imagine its built on a house of cards. 

[wogojump]

1 minute ago, Ludwig_von_Kitteh said:

The only way they could create a large financial war chest was to sell XRP. They took a calculated risk and were finally discovered by the regulators. What I'm most concerned about is that this is the only way they can cash float Ripple Labs Inc. That is, they aren't making any significant revenue from their licensing agreements. While we don't know what their EBITDA is, I can only imagine its built on a house of cards. 

That was not their only option.  They could and should have started getting funding from the traditional angel, venture, and private equity investor channels.  Successful companies that have solid business models leverage this framework all the time to quickly grow while following SEC laws.  If you try to bypass SEC laws and gain funding through practices that violate the SEC laws, then the SEC will eventually go after you.

Why didn't Ripple use this framework in the beginning?  Because of incompetence, greediness, or they knew their business model was not profitable?  These are not valid reasons to violate SEC laws, which is actually the reasoning in the first place why the SEC exists to enforce fair practices for retail investors.

 

Ripple's legal counsel is even admitting they may have violated a SEC law and are willing to resolve this in court:

 

[PunishmentOfLuxury]

30 minutes ago, Ludwig_von_Kitteh said:

The only way they could create a large financial war chest was to sell XRP. They took a calculated risk and were finally discovered by the regulators. What I'm most concerned about is that this is the only way they can cash float Ripple Labs Inc. That is, they aren't making any significant revenue from their licensing agreements. While we don't know what their EBITDA is, I can only imagine its built on a house of cards. 

Calling @Panzer_Kitteh Ohhh wait, you're here already.

[Ludwig_von_Kitteh]

10 minutes ago, wogojump said:

That was not their only option.  They could and should have started getting funding from the traditional angel, venture, and private equity investor channels.  Successful companies that have solid business models leverage this framework all the time to quickly grow while following SEC laws.  If you try to bypass SEC laws and gain funding through practices that violate the SEC laws, then the SEC will eventually go after you.

Why didn't Ripple use this framework in the beginning?  Because of incompetence, greediness, or they knew their business model was not profitable?  These are not valid reasons to violate SEC laws, which is actually the reasoning in the first place why the SEC exists to enforce fair practices for retail investors.

Ripple's legal counsel is even admitting they may have violated a SEC law and are willing to resolve this in court:

 

It's not and should have never been their only option, but they decided to roll the dice. Now here we are, holding the bags thinking there was good faith from their end. I can only assume that Brad was assuming if SHTF he could cash in his political capital? 

https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=brad+garlinghouse

[buh]

when Brad and Ripple got litigated by the courts in 2018, we all blindly focused on ripple's grandiose explanations that "xrp is not a security" because of the usual talking points "exxon owns a lot of oil". What i mean with this, the SEC paints a very clear picture of what they believe to be a security in this case - xrp transactions conducted by ripple were in fact under the law of security business model - and not xrp per say:

 

1) the SEC states that Ripple and the founders own 80% of the xrp in circulation, which makes them dominate the market and able to manipulate it.

2) the SEC also states that, as early as 2012 Larssen got some email memos from a lawyer firm that advised them to contact the SEC, because it felt xrp distribution by ripple felt like a security. It does not matter crying wolf out loud now from ripple towards the SEC, if this was neglected in the ealry beginning.

3) the fact that Brad shouts outloud that "I am long XRP" and on our backs, Larssen and Brad sold about 2-3 billion XRP (600m$) onto retail investors. The SEC alledges ripple, Brad and Larssen, did not provide symmetric flow of information (aka, assymetric flow of information). Meaning, in a security case, you have to tell when you sell (or buy), how much you sell, and so on. Ripple may have been very transparent about their sells, but Brad and Larssen none. Even Jed's holding had more transparency regarding his sales, because it was mandated by the court.

4) after reading all that litigation for the second time, it makes it all even more infuriating, because i am confident that if only ripple was bluntly selling their xrp holdings, the SEC would have just settled this deal long ago with ripple, made Ripple pay a huge fine and force them to burn their xrp holdings. But the fact brad and Larssen were clustered here, it really screwed up it all.

 

also, bear in mind the following, which i am posting in other threads: please consider this is going to be a trial by jury; meaning 12 averages Joes will listen to the story from the SEC and that "Brad, Larssen with ripple and xrp, conducted a shadowy ponzi scheme bussiness", how will they think about it? i was a long term hodler for xrp but that SEC litigation brought the so needed "transparency", regarding brad/larssen's sales, ripple's discount sales to financial instituions, with almost no strings attached at some points, the fact that ODL is not working and ripple had to pay the money makers 300m XRP as fees to cover their losses; and the list goes on.

[Dario_o]

2 hours ago, buh said:

when Brad and Ripple got litigated by the courts in 2018, we all blindly focused on ripple's grandiose explanations that "xrp is not a security" because of the usual talking points "exxon owns a lot of oil". What i mean with this, the SEC paints a very clear picture of what they believe to be a security in this case - xrp transactions conducted by ripple were in fact under the law of security business model - and not xrp per say:

 

1) the SEC states that Ripple and the founders own 80% of the xrp in circulation, which makes them dominate the market and able to manipulate it.

2) the SEC also states that, as early as 2012 Larssen got some email memos from a lawyer firm that advised them to contact the SEC, because it felt xrp distribution by ripple felt like a security. It does not matter crying wolf out loud now from ripple towards the SEC, if this was neglected in the ealry beginning.

3) the fact that Brad shouts outloud that "I am long XRP" and on our backs, Larssen and Brad sold about 2-3 billion XRP (600m$) onto retail investors. The SEC alledges ripple, Brad and Larssen, did not provide symmetric flow of information (aka, assymetric flow of information). Meaning, in a security case, you have to tell when you sell (or buy), how much you sell, and so on. Ripple may have been very transparent about their sells, but Brad and Larssen none. Even Jed's holding had more transparency regarding his sales, because it was mandated by the court.

4) after reading all that litigation for the second time, it makes it all even more infuriating, because i am confident that if only ripple was bluntly selling their xrp holdings, the SEC would have just settled this deal long ago with ripple, made Ripple pay a huge fine and force them to burn their xrp holdings. But the fact brad and Larssen were clustered here, it really screwed up it all.

 

also, bear in mind the following, which i am posting in other threads: please consider this is going to be a trial by jury; meaning 12 averages Joes will listen to the story from the SEC and that "Brad, Larssen with ripple and xrp, conducted a shadowy ponzi scheme bussiness", how will they think about it? i was a long term hodler for xrp but that SEC litigation brought the so needed "transparency", regarding brad/larssen's sales, ripple's discount sales to financial instituions, with almost no strings attached at some points, the fact that ODL is not working and ripple had to pay the money makers 300m XRP as fees to cover their losses; and the list goes on.

Thanks for this great summary,

XRP is just an ordinary alt-coin, good for short-term speculation : hyped with no real use case

[elppir]

6 hours ago, curlyfry said:

Does anyone know what happens to the XRP that investors have on an exchange that suddenly decides to delist? 

Good question, moving away from an exchange to be on the safe side could be best at this moment. Does anyone expect massive delisting?

Edited December 24, 2020 by elppir

[buh]

11 minutes ago, elppir said:

Good question, moving away from an exchange to be on the safe side could be best at this moment. Does anyone expect massive delisting?

delisted, means initially stopped all xrp trading but users will have a gracious period to widthraw their holdings.

[cmbartley]

7 hours ago, wogojump said:

They could and should have started getting funding from the traditional angel, venture, and private equity investor channels. 

See: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/ripple-labs

 

Worst case scenario? Attrition due to lack of legal clarity for years.

[elppir]

4 hours ago, buh said:

delisted, means initially stopped all xrp trading but users will have a gracious period to widthraw their holdings.

I contacted Kraken and the employee told that news (any news) would be posted on blog.kraken.com The employee said that in case of delisting of coins in general customers would get the chance to move coins. Just like "buh" said!

Just to be sure I moved most of my XRP away. No amount to get exited about but just want to be in control myself! ;-)