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China’s Global Lockdown Propaganda Campaign


thinlyspread
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3 minutes ago, Zerpiet said:

You know about 240 people that had COVID-19?

Yes I know more than 240 people that have had Covid 19. Chances are so do you unless you are in a very rural place.  Although I just used the sledge hammer calc of 42000 as a percentage of 1,000,000
Actually Europe is a very densely populated place, London & south east England the most densely populated give or take, in the EU. But many European cities are also densely populated.

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1 hour ago, WarChest said:

If that were the case, then the millions of people that have caught this virus would be dying  in greater percentages. They are not.

You are not making sense to me. The official figures don't make sense.

I just went on to the UK Office of National Statistics (ONS) website

number of deaths thus far 42000 in 2020

From Statista, Number of infections in UK in 2020 almost 1 million

That's a death rate of 4.2%

But The UK Gov is not claiming a death rate of 4.2% 

If it was 4.2% then I would likely know and know of  about 10 people that have died of Covid-19 - I don't .

It's all a jumble of unclear stats and sentences - like This again from the ONS

  • Of the deaths registered in Week 42, 670 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, accounting for 6.4% of all deaths in England and Wales; this is an increase of 232 deaths compared with Week 41 (when there were 438 deaths involving COVID-19, accounting for 4.4% of all deaths).

Mentioned means nothing. Did the person Die of Covid ?

Have a look at this Stat - deaths in the England and Wales by Age Group up until June 2020, where for some reason the ONS deemed it not something that they would publish anymore (again nonsense because they collect all data) the numbers under 45 years of age are so low they group the first age group or 0-44 into one whereby the number of deaths is 101 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnounderlyinghealthconditionsbrokendownbyage

 

the first manipulation is that a flu season begins in Fall and ends in Spring of the following year: so you have a flu season 2018-2019 and then a NEW season 2019-2020.

The victims of the first one ARE NOT ADDED to those of the latest season. But in case of COVID we read a cumulative number of casualties consisting of those in the winter 2020 with those in fall 2020 (belonging actually to the new season). 

Then the number of positives: I take Italy as it is my country of origin of which I know data very well.

In September the government is being making 2,5 tests each 1000 people, while in spring 2020 it was doing 0,5 tests per 1000 people.

So in spring practically only those in very serious conditions were tested. And as consequence the death rate was worse than in case of EBOLA.

Now we have 30000 daily new cases and "only" 210 deaths (on 29.10).

Of the total 36826 deaths the average age is 80,3 years (81,3 if only September and October are considered).

63% of those had 3 or more of the following diseases:

cancer, Diabetes, ischemic heart disease, heart failure, hypertension, bronchopneumopathy, kidney failure, respiratory failure, obesity

Now, if I take a 80-year-old man with 3 of the above mentioned illnesses, I shall ask myself HOW he could still be alive and not if COVID has killed him.

A 80-year old person without illnesses, who gets a flu, risks his life (death rate is around 30%).  

The average number of illnesses present in "COVID victims" in Italy is 3,6. 

The total number of victims below 50 year old and without any registered illenss is 14 (fourteen) !!!!!

 

https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/sars-cov-2-decessi-italia

 

I have read that the  PCR test just collects some proteins which are believed to belong to the virus ("believed" does not mean that they do), and even if it marks the presence of the virus, this does not mean that the virus has infected a person: the virus can just be lying on the tongue of the person tested. To be infected by a virus the virus shall penetrate the cells and reproduce and in that case one shows symptoms. but if we have (Italy) from 80 to 95% of symptomless "infected" than again we shall ask ourselves if we have invented a pandemic because the test does not work.

 

in Italy the big problem are antibiotic resistant Bacteria, which are present in all hospitals and particularly in facilities where ill people are hosted, included those facilities for very old people (they are called RSA). My uncle had it 2 years ago and he had diabetes and he did not leave the hospital alive. 5 months of continuous attempts to cure him but, because of diabetes, his body was just not responding. And he became weaker and weaker. 

So in Bergamo they started to park ill people in these RSA and they all got the flu or these bacteria and died all together. this is a clear example of mismanagement of public health.

 

In Sweden despite not having masks nor lock down they appear to be immune and in Germany there is also no excess of deaths.

 

Those countries with biggest economic problems and which hope to obtain money form the EU are those with the highest number of infected.

 

So I have written a lot just to bring some reasoning why I think that each country is exploiting this (pseudo)pandemic for particular reasons and does not want to go back to normality.

Edited by JJJ2
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32 minutes ago, WarChest said:

Yes I know more than 240 people that have had Covid 19. Chances are so do you unless you are in a very rural place.  Although I just used the sledge hammer calc of 42000 as a percentage of 1,000,000
Actually Europe is a very densely populated place, London & south east England the most densely populated give or take, in the EU. But many European cities are also densely populated.

I have 3 relatives who were tested positive. No symptoms at all and after the quarantine they weren't even tested anymore. Nobody cared about their health. they were just important to build the number of ill-people.

 

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The reporting of Covid related deaths is likely a big variable between nations too.

In the U.K, Public Health England were scanning the records checking for patients who have tested positive for Covid and if they were still alive. If they were not, they were counted as dying from Covid.

So technically, you could have tested positive for Covid in March, made a full recovery. Gone on holiday over Easter, built a shed in your garden in May, went fishing in June and touched an overhead wire with your rod and died of electrocution and been reported as a Covid death.

They revised that in August when ‘experts’ informed the ‘experts’ of the flaw. Now it’s if you die within 28 days of a positive test

Its crap data like that which makes me indecisive as to what the heck is going on and to question what an ‘expert’ is and if there is some sort of agenda.

Edited by Flintstone
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7 hours ago, WarChest said:

If that were the case, then the millions of people that have caught this virus would be dying  in greater percentages. They are not.

Not so unfortunately.   The bad case I referred to is if the medical facilities become overwhelmed.  The rate of death then skyrockets.  As I’ve said many times, in a way we are victims of our success.  The reason it’s dragging on is BECAUSE we were so far able to control it.  So people don’t understand how bad it can get.  And therefore don’t act in accordance with sensible health measures.  And so drag it all out. And so it goes on.

 

You do all realise, don’t you, that IF we had a rational population willing to work together, any country could smash it with a strong lockdown for three weeks?  And then after that single temporary shutdown (or work from home in many cases) the country could be mostly back on track with a tiny number of cases being stomped on by large testing and contact tracing? 
 

But that would require Herculean efforts from the military and government and the populace themselves to provide essential services and deliveries to allow people to really stay at home and not break the quarantine.   Won’t happen because we do not act rationally.  New Zealand came closest and did achieve a good result.  Land connected countries would have to exceed NZ’s actions though to achieve the same.

 

But the universally irresponsible and unwilling populace’s will inevitably shlt on any plan like that,  and so instead we have a year of ongoing suffering economically and lifestyle wise.  Welcome to Earth.  :) 

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2 hours ago, BillyOckham said:

But the universally irresponsible and unwilling populace’s will inevitably shlt on any plan like that,  and so instead we have a year of ongoing suffering economically and lifestyle wise.  Welcome to Earth.  :) 

I don’t agree, nor do I think your tone helpful. If we were all to lockdown fully for 3 weeks.... you are making up numbers and a hypothetical scenario. 
Let us see what unfolds in a year before we start saying that New Zealand or Taiwan etc have the answer. Or indeed Sweden in the opposite view. 

Meanwhile I still don’t know anyone that has died of covid 19.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 11/1/2020 at 5:51 PM, BillyOckham said:

Funny that we hear about “overreactions”.  Lose autonomy?  What an extreme overreaction.

 

On 11/1/2020 at 7:11 PM, BillyOckham said:

appreciate that you are willing to talk sensibly and calmly about this without resorting to personal attack which seems to be the default mode for so many unfortunately.

OK, so labeling my comment (shared by a large and growing number of people) as "an extreme overreaction" is not exactly a personal attack, but certainly dismissive. What happened to sensible and calm discourse?  

Edited by Sharkey
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1 hour ago, WarChest said:

I don’t agree, nor do I think your tone helpful.

Sorry if you feel I shouldn’t have strayed into editorialising.   
 

1 hour ago, WarChest said:

you are making up numbers and a hypothetical scenario. 

Not sure what numbers you mean, but my last part about a rational populace is definitely a hypothetical scenario.  We humans seem to get dumber the bigger the group for some reason that isn’t entirely clear to me.

 

In any case I think I’ve said my bit...  the thing is remarkably easy to kill if we could all just quarantine for three weeks.  But that’s a pipe dream in most places because we don’t act rationally.

Failing that,  we can keep it under control by practising the mask and distance guidelines with vigorous testing and contact tracing.  That isn’t going to happen in most places either (for the same reasons) so I guess it’s just wait for a vaccine and hope it’s effective.

No one is going to be convinced by any amount of discussion,  so I guess I wasted my time trying.  As I said at an earlier point...  people chose their desired figures from the fact buffet and munch down happily on their beliefs.  No amount of desperately pleading medical staff will change anyone’s mind.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sharkey said:

 

OK, so labeling my comment (shared by a large and growing number of people) as "an extreme overreaction" is not exactly a personal attack, but certainly dismissive. What happened to sensible and calm discourse?  

I feel fairly calm.    Without going back to check, so I hope I’m not mischaracterising what you were saying,  but I do think launching into “slippery slope” “loss of freedom” type arguments IS an extreme overreaction to a health emergency so I said as much.  Your mileage may differ.

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1 hour ago, WarChest said:

I don’t agree, nor do I think your tone helpful. If we were all to lockdown fully for 3 weeks.... you are making up numbers and a hypothetical scenario. 
Let us see what unfolds in a year before we start saying that New Zealand or Taiwan etc have the answer. Or indeed Sweden in the opposite view. 

Meanwhile I still don’t know anyone that has died of covid 19.

 

 

 

 

 

3-5 weeks is about right, go read about the Atlantic Canadian bubble, that's what it took last spring to die down...since then all new cases have been traced back to travel related...14 day quarantine when you come in from outside the bubble, except for essential services, which is why we have the occasional little outbreak, but it all gets contact traced and isolated right quick...we social distance and everyone wears masks, no fuss, just being responsible citizens and good neighbours.

What does you not knowing anyone who've died of Covid 19 have to do with anything?? Lol

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1 hour ago, BillyOckham said:

I feel fairly calm.    Without going back to check, so I hope I’m not mischaracterising what you were saying,  but I do think launching into “slippery slope” “loss of freedom” type arguments IS an extreme overreaction to a health emergency so I said as much.  Your mileage may differ.

Yes, indeed it does, likely due to different life/world experiences.   Cheers!

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2 hours ago, WarChest said:

I don’t agree, nor do I think your tone helpful. If we were all to lockdown fully for 3 weeks.... you are making up numbers and a hypothetical scenario. 
Let us see what unfolds in a year before we start saying that New Zealand or Taiwan etc have the answer. Or indeed Sweden in the opposite view. 

Truth.

2 hours ago, WarChest said:

Meanwhile I still don’t know anyone that has died of covid 19.

 

Same, and I work in healthcare.

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1 hour ago, BillyOckham said:

No amount of desperately pleading medical staff will change anyone’s mind.

Although re-reading that comment of mine...  I really would like to know what people think is going on when they see a desperate and tired health worker in a hospital ward pleading for community support of sensible protocols?

Do you guys think these people are making it up to get on tv?

Do you think when a doctor says she has never seen anything like it in many years of medicine that she is wrong or exaggerating?

I’m not sure how one rationalises away the fervent pleading of worn out staff in hospitals.  Obviously not every hospital, and not at all times...  but there have been repeated instances of overwhelming or nearly overwhelming numbers in hospitals and plenty of pleading from staff for people to simply comply with reasonable protocols.  I can’t understand the mind set that somehow manages to ignore that.

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2 minutes ago, BillyOckham said:

Although re-reading that comment of mine...  I really would like to know what people think is going on when they see a desperate and tired health worker in a hospital ward pleading for community support of sensible protocols?

Do you guys think these people are making it up to get on tv?

Do you think when a doctor says she has never seen anything like it in many years of medicine that she is wrong or exaggerating?

I’m not sure how one rationalises away the fervent pleading of worn out staff in hospitals.  Obviously not every hospital, and not at all times...  but there have been repeated instances of overwhelming or nearly overwhelming numbers in hospitals and plenty of pleading from staff for people to simply comply with reasonable protocols.  I can’t understand the mind set that somehow manages to ignore that.

I'm not hearing anyone rationalizing "the fervent pleading of worn out staff in hospitals.."  Several people have posted legitimate perceptions and interpretations off only partially known facts.  I am beginning to believe that you have very little interest in knowing what others think, unless they think that you are the undisputed arbiter of absolute truth, and righteousness.  So, for that reason, I will not respond again to this discussion, as there is no point in endlessly debating equivocal viewpoints.  Cheers!

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1 hour ago, BillyOckham said:

Although re-reading that comment of mine...  I really would like to know what people think is going on when they see a desperate and tired health worker in a hospital ward pleading for community support of sensible protocols?

Do you guys think these people are making it up to get on tv?

Do you think when a doctor says she has never seen anything like it in many years of medicine that she is wrong or exaggerating?

I’m not sure how one rationalises away the fervent pleading of worn out staff in hospitals.  Obviously not every hospital, and not at all times...  but there have been repeated instances of overwhelming or nearly overwhelming numbers in hospitals and plenty of pleading from staff for people to simply comply with reasonable protocols.  I can’t understand the mind set that somehow manages to ignore that.

 

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