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XRP, XRPL will be ‘bridge’ between CBDCs, says Ripple exec


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4 hours ago, Flintstone said:

Example banks: 

ING: The ING Group is a Dutch multinational banking and financial services corporation.

BNY: The Bank of New York Mellon Corporation, commonly known as BNY Mellon, is an American multinational investment banking services holding company.

Those balances are the banks funds in their CBDC wallets for settling payments. Note the perforated lined boxes on the diagram represent a CBDC Ledger. ING need a funded wallet on each Ledger. If ING want to process CBDC payments from the ECB Ledger to Mexico, then they would have to fund a wallet on the MEX CBDC Ledger too. 

Yes, it highlights the simplicity of just one intermediary connection as opposed to opening an account in every currency.

Yes it is speed correspondence banking.  Everything has to be prefunded whne you cross jurisdictions, as if from one walled garden to the next?

The XRP digital asset erradictes that (when the liquidity is there)

Edited by Julian_Williams
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David Schwartz, CTO at Ripple, recently delivered a lecture at Berkeley, a lecture during which he shared his views on how he sees XRP and XRPL fitting into the broader picture of a world with CBDCs.

I think the benefit of us all being here is to learn from each other. Discussion and challenging each other is part of that and we can't be all right or wrong. That said, atomic swaps work a little as

I think we shouldn't forget CBDCs aren't assets, they're liabilities, because they're backed by fiat. So you're transferring liabilities, not value. Ripple is trying to create an internet of value, no

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1 hour ago, XRPage said:

Yeah, you are not an expert. 

Sigh.   Unable to have civilised conversation?

Fair enough.  I’ll stick to civility even if you won’t.

 

So how does your swap work?  Person on chain A wants to move value to chain B.    The asset they had on chain A...  what happens to it?  Is it burnt?  Returned to some pool account?

The new asset on chain b...  where does it come from?  The pool?  You do realise, don’t you, that when you do this atomic swap you are trusting the other half to do it’s part because there is no meta chain doing it trustlessly.

I think you are assuming things are different than they actually are in the real world.  But I could be wrong.  (Don’t forget to quote that last bit...   :) )

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11 hours ago, BillyOckham said:

Sigh.   Unable to have civilised conversation?

Fair enough.  I’ll stick to civility even if you won’t.

 

So how does your swap work?  Person on chain A wants to move value to chain B.    The asset they had on chain A...  what happens to it?  Is it burnt?  Returned to some pool account?

The new asset on chain b...  where does it come from?  The pool?  You do realise, don’t you, that when you do this atomic swap you are trusting the other half to do it’s part because there is no meta chain doing it trustlessly.

I think you are assuming things are different than they actually are in the real world.  But I could be wrong.  (Don’t forget to quote that last bit...   :) )

I think the benefit of us all being here is to learn from each other. Discussion and challenging each other is part of that and we can't be all right or wrong. That said, atomic swaps work a little as follows:

  • asset A on chainA is sent on chainA from person x to person y.
  • asset B on chainB is sent on chainB from person y to person x. 

For this to work trustless you need on both chains support for TimeLocks, HashLocks and Public PreImage

Some explanatory sides (couldn't find better ones, pretty sure there are better explanations):

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On 10/30/2020 at 7:04 AM, XRPage said:

Great, but that has nothing to do with xrp being a good 'bridge' asset or not. You admitted that with native CDBCs the bridge asset use case makes no sense. 

Btw, if I have to choose a crypto as a scarce and censorship resistant asset, it wouldn’t be xrp. 

In your initial post in this thread you did not distinguish any type of CBDC, you put all CBDCs on one big heap and said bridging them is "the worst and most absurd use case" you had ever heard. 

Now you're narrowing it down to a very specific type of CBDC that may theoretically not need bridging, but it's a type of CBDC that does not exist. 

Edited by Danny
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On 10/30/2020 at 7:39 PM, BillyOckham said:

Sigh.   Unable to have civilised conversation?

Fair enough.  I’ll stick to civility even if you won’t.

 

So how does your swap work?  Person on chain A wants to move value to chain B.    The asset they had on chain A...  what happens to it?  Is it burnt?  Returned to some pool account?

The new asset on chain b...  where does it come from?  The pool?  You do realise, don’t you, that when you do this atomic swap you are trusting the other half to do it’s part because there is no meta chain doing it trustlessly.

I think you are assuming things are different than they actually are in the real world.  But I could be wrong.  (Don’t forget to quote that last bit...   :) )

Lets use flare network as an example. Imagine a flare smart contract that says, if alice sends bob 1xrp send 5 spark to alice else return spark to bob. Bob sends his 5 spark to the contract which activates it. Alice can send the 1xrp and be certain that she will get the 5 spark. Bob is certain if alice doesn't send the 1xrp he'll get his 5 spark back. No one trusts each other and only the two chains involved. Alice is sending the XRP directly to bob's xrp account. Bob is sending his spark to a contract and the contract sends the 5 spark to alice's spark address. 

Current implementations use payment channels but the concept is the same. 

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@BillyOckham

To elaborate the definition of atomic is "only one". In programming it's interpreted as "only one outcome" or "no undesired outcome"

An atomic swap is one transaction swapping two coins without unintended outcomes. It may have two signatures, one from each chain but the intended result is one transaction swapping the two coins. 

In programming a variable can be locked so that nothing else can influence it while it's being used. Say I'm counting a list of items and you're adding items to the list. I'd lock the list until I'm done counting. Then I'd release the lock so you could add an item. Otherwise you adding to the list could throw off my count. The list would be considered an atomic list. "only one list" that we both share

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9 hours ago, jargoman said:

Lets use flare network as an example.

The thing is....  these guys are saying that CBDC chains will atomic swap.  So who is the Flare network equivalent between the countries?  Who do they trust?

I understand the concept of atomic swap and understand (at a superficial level) how it is achieved.  But the statement that they will “simply atomic swap” has all sorts of hidden complexities in it...  and requires either a smart contract chain that all countries agree to using or a series of bilateral agreements about the locking and timing etc.

Etherium?  Mined in China?  Proof of stake (eventually) and who has the stake?  All the countries will be ok with that?

I tried to indicate that international atomic swaps of cbdc will not be a “simple” matter as was claimed.

On the other hand a digital bridge asset requires no trust whatsoever and no mess of bilateral agreements.  Not saying anything is ordained or inevitable or that trust won’t be granted...  just saying that this is NOT a simple matter of atomic swap.

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1 hour ago, BillyOckham said:

The thing is....  these guys are saying that CBDC chains will atomic swap.  So who is the Flare network equivalent between the countries?  Who do they trust?

I understand the concept of atomic swap and understand (at a superficial level) how it is achieved.  But the statement that they will “simply atomic swap” has all sorts of hidden complexities in it...  and requires either a smart contract chain that all countries agree to using or a series of bilateral agreements about the locking and timing etc.

Etherium?  Mined in China?  Proof of stake (eventually) and who has the stake?  All the countries will be ok with that?

I tried to indicate that international atomic swaps of cbdc will not be a “simple” matter as was claimed.

On the other hand a digital bridge asset requires no trust whatsoever and no mess of bilateral agreements.  Not saying anything is ordained or inevitable or that trust won’t be granted...  just saying that this is NOT a simple matter of atomic swap.

They could but there needs to be liquidity. Every chain would need to support swapping with every other chain. 200 cbdc in interoperability with each other is 19,900 possible combinations, only to find that there needs to be someone to swap with on the other end. Not much different than swift gpi with added complexity. 

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2 hours ago, jargoman said:

They could but there needs to be liquidity. Every chain would need to support swapping with every other chain. 200 cbdc in interoperability with each other is 19,900 possible combinations, only to find that there needs to be someone to swap with on the other end. Not much different than swift gpi with added complexity. 

Swapping is one thing, but where do you create and market the orders and how are these orders settled?

I mean specifically an open market. If you agree one on one you want to swap, then atomic swap will do the trick. But if you do not know in advance with whom you are going to swap, how do you arrange for that. How is the order translated to an atomic swap

n.b. Let's look at the most simple but best use-case ever. BTC<->ETH orderbook swaps decentralized fully trustless. Why isn't this running on Ethereum or Bitcoin chain yet? 

Edited by jn_r
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