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Could XRP be "confiscated" like Executive Order 6102 of 1933?


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Complete tin-foil hat speculation here.  Many have speculated for a return to some form of gold standard, combined with a launch of CBDCs. With all the new CBDC regulation announcements coming from multiple countries, many will likely be issuing CBDC within the next few years. If XRP is really going to be the central pool of digital asset from which nations will draw upon to swap currencies/assets, then it's a big boy's toy, not really meant for retail investors and small fish.  I agree with some who say it's not even front-end, but back-end facilitating the use of CBDCs, which is what the citizens will actually 'touch'.

Not to say small fish won't be allowed, I was watching a Youtube vid from DAI where he asked Dilip Rau if small investors would still be allowed to mess around in the XRP ecosystem and Rau's response was some vague analogy akin to 'there are many sized fishies in the sea, and sometimes small fish become large fish'. Take that as you will.

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Could the US government or any world government force digital asset holders to trade in their XRP for the CBDC of that nation down the road, say at CBDC launch?  Force or maybe entice, with, say, a guaranteed buy-up price? EO 6102 wasn't technically a confiscation, which is they take your stuff and don't give it back.  It was a trade-in, the US government bought all the privately held gold for $20/oz, then once they had it all, re-priced it to $35/oz.  I only know this cause my great-grandparents were around at the time. It was basically flat-lined at $35/oz throughout the first half of my grandfather's life, almost 40 years.

Now before we say, "INCONCEIVABLE!", the IRS is bug hunting for Monero cracks, $625,000 to anyone who can track the privacy coin(s).  I'm not up to speed on the privacy coins, but they aren't going to be around long if nations put their computing power behind cracking them.  What's to stop the US from 'borrowing' Google's new quantum computer to crack today's SHA-256 and beyond? It can solve a problem that would take today's most powerful super computers upwards of 10,000 years to solve in 3 minutes and 20 seconds, as announced by Google.  That's not to say it's mature enough already to crack SHA-256 but this is the order of magnitude that quantum binary computers leap over today's binary systems.

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Even if the US government could actually just take over the private keys of all digital assets, they would probably opt to pay us off, much like EO 6102; it's bad PR to kick in the doors of citizens and take their stuff. There's like 25,000 registered XRPchat users, it would be peanuts to them in the grand scheme of things.

At what price would you guys turn in all your XRP at once to the Gooberment, knowing the world Gooberment(s) would turn around and reprice it to something like $10,000 for global use? At $20 they can suck it, at $100, I'm still mad, but not so mad...."fine, gimme my CBDCs, ya Gooberment crooks, highway robbery I tell ya."

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1 hour ago, jetbrzzz said:

em.  What's to stop the US from 'borrowing' Google's new quantum computer to crack today's SHA-256 and beyond? It can solve a problem that would take today's most powerful super computers upwards of 10,000 years to solve in 3 minutes and 20 seconds, as announced by Google.  That's not to say it's mature enough already to crack SHA-256 but this is the order of magnitude that quantum binary computers leap over today's binary systems.

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Just on the Quantum computing question, I think that there is a statement from David Schwartz that it'l be 8 years or so before it's a threat to XRP. 

I can only speculate that the threat will be mitigated before that time.

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1 hour ago, Flintstone said:

@WarChest You can mitigate it now with multi-sig ;)

When the question was asked about mitigating now David answered with the following (by memory and not actual quote). If mitigation was done now to the ledger to prevent quantum attacks which could be done we would have to live with those changes for ever.

My Thoughts:

It seems the idea is that the more we learn about how quantum attacks could/do occur, the defensive mechanisms will be more concrete and less speculative. Therefore creating less of a burden on the system.

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2 hours ago, WarChest said:

Just on the Quantum computing question, I think that there is a statement from David Schwartz that it'l be 8 years or so before it's a threat to XRP. 

I can only speculate that the threat will be mitigated before that time.

I remember reading that article a couple months ago.  As for the ECDSA algorithm being cracked, I suppose you could substitute the new quantum version of that into the XRP/any-crypto logic, like some kind of black-hole cryptography where the solution is ever-moving further away towards an infinite singularity or a quantum observer effect-based cryptography where the act of looking for the solution changes the solution. :wizard:

I don't think world governments would take us all to digital currencies only to have the world hacked in 8-10 years, I'm sure there's a contingency plan. Could be the next space race though, quantum warfare.

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2 hours ago, Flintstone said:

@WarChest You can mitigate it now with multi-sig ;)

Yea, I definitely modeled my addresses after Ripple's account security; use all 8 multi-signature slots with 50% signature consensus to transact, master key disabled.

If that doesn't save my XRP, then it won't save Ripple's either, they've got 3-4 billion in some of their addresses. I can live with that, quantum attacks be damned.

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As long as the forum is descending into future/paranoid hypotheticals, here's one for you:

What happens when someone figures out how to get ASIC-level (or better) mining performance out of commodity hardware and becomes the pre-eminent PoW miner?  No "quantum magic" is required for that one - just some translational math and then... *poof*

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1 hour ago, peanut56 said:

When the question was asked about mitigating now David answered with the following (by memory and not actual quote). If mitigation was done now to the ledger to prevent quantum attacks which could be done we would have to live with those changes for ever.

My Thoughts:

It seems the idea is that the more we learn about how quantum attacks could/do occur, the defensive mechanisms will be more concrete and less speculative. Therefore creating less of a burden on the system.

Also, any actions done now, would be mostly speculation. For technology, 8 years can be like a lifetime. It wouldn't be sensible to divert energy now to work on a speculative solution that might not even work in 8 years (and the 8 years is not even a concrete time frame).

Ripple has plenty of other developments they need to work on to make sure the XRP ledger remains the preferred tool for ODL in 8 years.

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31 minutes ago, NightJanitor said:

What happens when someone figures out how to get ASIC-level (or better) mining performance out of commodity hardware and becomes the pre-eminent PoW miner?  No "quantum magic" is required for that one - just some translational math and then... *poof*

Good thing XRP is UNL consensus. We should be building boats today for the coming flood of Bitcoiners' tears. :girl_cray2:

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On 9/16/2020 at 12:45 PM, Flintstone said:

@WarChest You can mitigate it now with multi-sig ;)

I'm no cryptography expert but multi-sig would do very little to help you if a computer was strong enough to brute force a key. 

It depends on the attack. If it were a direct bruteforce of your key then the results could be cached and compared with every known XRP address. 

If the attack was collecting every transaction you've singed and using an algorithm to algebraically deduce your key then yes multi-sig would help. 

Also with the birthday paradox. Brute forcing 50% of 8 keys is likely easier than brute forcing 1 key.
Say you had to pick 8 numbers from 1-100 and another chose 1 number from 1-100.
Say numbers 1-50 were guessed (Bruteforced).

with 1 number. There's a 50% chance that you chose a number higher than 50. 
with 8 numbers, it's very likely that 4 of those numbers are less than 50 and the other 4 are higher than 50. 

odds of guessing 1 out of 100 = 1/100 or 1%
odds of guessing any of 8 out of 100 = 8/100 or 12.5%

If you're a poker player. Imagine You were one card away from a royal flush. The chances of getting a royal flush is not likely, but the chances of getting a straight is 4 times more likely 
 

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For what it's worth, my attorney told me after I explained that the judge cannot tell me what to do with my crypto, she said then if I declined to obey his order, he would hold me in contempt of court.

Endlessly fighting governments/laws/regulations/etc is rather pointless pursuit. Even if you "win", there are no laws/govt/regs to protect what you "won". Some folks just like to get obsessed with 'anti' something with a concentration of power.

Ripple had BTC licked with the right approach back in 2012/13. I say this in more than one way, both on their approach to Regulations, and on their approach to building out the IoV network. Banks are like social media "influencers", who are connected to many people. Ripple has been intentionally been building a network of financial influencers.

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19 minutes ago, KarmaCoverage said:

For what it's worth, my attorney told me after I explained that the judge cannot tell me what to do with my crypto, she said then if I declined to obey his order, he would hold me in contempt of court.

You were hacked, though, right?  Remember?  Damn shame.

(That's what all the fly-by-night exchanges say, anyway.) :)

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