Jump to content

Moneygram ODL but highest fees?


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Tinyaccount said:

Are you sure about that?  Do you have any evidence?  Because their CEO has said he wants more corridors and more throughput.  That would seem at odds with your claim.

That's because the CEO gets his directions from the owners (i.e. Ripple). In my post history is also a spread comparison between USD/MXN corridor through ODL and regular transactions. There is also evidence that Ripple is paying Moneygram to compensate the losses they make by using ODL.

I do believe that ODL could be profitable for remittance companies in the future, but I'm fairly certain that we are not there yet.

Now, do you have any evidence that ODL is more cost efficient than regular methods? Please, I would love to see some figures.

Edited by opaopa
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I'm building a website to calculate the costs of transferring money via ODL from Bitstamp to Bitso (USD -> XRP -> XRP -> MXN), but unfortunately it is not really ready to put it up for public

Howdy Q I've been (on and off) working on something similar, logging my progress in another thread. I've noticed the baseline cost of just the slippage ranging from 1.8 % to 0.12 % for amoun

Another thing is just because they are using ODL doesn't mean that 100% of transactions are moving through ODL. I don't have the link off hand, but I think it was only 1% of their transactions to thos

Posted Images

3 hours ago, Julian_Williams said:

looks wto me like Moneygram is very competitive in price and speed on the US/Mex corridor?  What am I missing?

And it's only gonna get better, zero doubt !!

Back when I first posted that link I didn't realize that their data was so stale, I just noticed that it's from September.

The ODL deployment is most likely hampered by discoveries and remediation work, just seeing all the varying trading patterns so far. 

Once all the engineering is finally optimized and the system is robust and stable, only then will the marketing teams take over. Then it's showtime mon.

It will be interesting to see how WU fares - they must have some plans in the works to stay competitive.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, opaopa said:

Now, do you have any evidence that ODL is more cost efficient than regular methods? Please, I would love to see some figures.

I wrote some scripts to pull down both BS and Bitso's order books, and then calculate the slippage from the two trades. We need to add some additional costs for exchange fees still.

Yesterday, the dual trade slippage costs were around a tenth of one percent for a $1000 conversion. Oddly, a week ago it was returning a metric of 1.8% - so things are still in flux I guess. I posted my raw numbers in the Bitso/ODL thread. 

I'm currently working on capturing and charting this action, so we can monitor it in the months to come.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding to previous post - I just re-ran today's numbers, and we're seeing 4/10ths of a percent for amounts from $100 to $5000 (and 6/10ths for 50k).

Here is this moment's two Depth of Market on-book liquidity: (the left vertical axis is XRP volume)

png_download26650.thumb.png.cb9b6a34afdc01a61d60a6c9c35f282a.png

Edited by JASCoder
Note on Vert. axis
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JASCoder said:

And it's only gonna get better, zero doubt !!

Back when I first posted that link I didn't realize that their data was so stale, I just noticed that it's from September.

The ODL deployment is most likely hampered by discoveries and remediation work, just seeing all the varying trading patterns so far. 

Once all the engineering is finally optimized and the system is robust and stable, only then will the marketing teams take over. Then it's showtime mon.

It will be interesting to see how WU fares - they must have some plans in the works to stay competitive.

no "must" - they "might", but big businesses are often very complacent about responding to competition.  Look at Kodak and digital cameras - no plans just let the company slip into oblivion.  Shipping companies v airlines, the list is endless

Thank you for adding some sanity to this thread

Edited by Julian_Williams
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Julian_Williams said:

no must - they might, but big businesses are often very complacent about responding to competition.  Look at Kodac and digital cameras - no plans just let the company slip into oblivion.  Shipping companies v airlines, the list is endless

I hear ya mon - just thinking of Blockbuster, AOL, and Yahoo comes to mind too.

Given how WU did do some active trial work with RL, and IIRC their CEO did admit, when pressed, they would be open to making changes to improve their operations, it does make me suspect they could have some hush-hush adoptive aspirations on the dev back-burner - but letting MGI do all the heavy lifting for them for now...

We shall see, eh ?!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Julian_Williams said:

The Tenitoshi index shows how the ramping up is almost a straight line - when it deviates it is pulled back to where it should be.  It looks like a plan is being followed

The one key parameter I wish he'd kindly share with us, is what value is he using to delineate the pricing ranges which defining the scope of the on-book Bids ?

This is exactly why I'm approaching the study from the POV of effective baseline costs (I'm not sure where at what slippage it's unprofitable) - there's too many unknowns on all the other cost components, AFAIK.

So, I am wondering what set of price samples should I use to generate the slippage snapshots ?

We now know with certainty that the "ODL FX at BS/Bitso is running 24/7, and for today, they all are near the same amounts (see my live hourly chart). Other days it's been recording just one single corrective spike in a one hour span, and all the rest fairly homogenous. I would expect that over time, as the amounts continue to scale up, the trade sizes will grow - as the spreads tighten.

For now, I'll go with factoring a set of "ODL FX" at the fiat amounts of:
100/500/1k/5k/10k/50k/100k/500k (assuming the book is deep enuf, I'll know more soon).

---

Regarding Tenitoshi's Index, there is a very important hidden component he cannot factor in, that is the Bitso-side MM's fiat reserves on their accounts, and their configured rule sets. That is to say, as MXN is traded for XRP, how deep are their balances for buying more ? There is no way the public can know this, as Bitso doesn't expose their customer account's fiat balances to the public.

Or am I missing something ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JASCoder said:

I wrote some scripts to pull down both BS and Bitso's order books, and then calculate the slippage from the two trades. We need to add some additional costs for exchange fees still.

Yesterday, the dual trade slippage costs were around a tenth of one percent for a $1000 conversion. Oddly, a week ago it was returning a metric of 1.8% - so things are still in flux I guess. I posted my raw numbers in the Bitso/ODL thread. 

I'm currently working on capturing and charting this action, so we can monitor it in the months to come.

This is really good information. Thank you for compiling this!

If we could also take the spread for ask and bid in to account for each currency we could calculate an average cost for a transaction of a certain size. (on https://utility-scan.com/#/dashboard it looks like ~USD 20.000 is sent a lot at the moment. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, opaopa said:

If we could also take the spread for ask and bid in to account for each currency we could calculate an average cost for a transaction of a certain size.

That’s what he has done,

Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, opaopa said:

CFO of moneygram states that moneygram is compensated to bring liquidity to the corridor.

This is not secret and is widely known and understood.  You are making a big deal of the pump priming that everyone knew was potentially going to be needed.  Ripple have been upfront about it for literally years.

Also your understanding of the dynamics of the Ripple - Moneygram relationship seems flawed.  Ripple do not “own” Moneygram.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.