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The impossibility of equality in an XRP settled world


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34 minutes ago, XRPwinning said:

XRP was designed to be an exchange currency. Not a currency. Something that only existed physically in the form of precious metals. Then internet money came along. Does gold not appreciate and also act as a currency?

Uhh, where does gold act like a currency? And I think you meant it was designed as a bridge currency, not an exchange currency. 

Edited by ringer2
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XRP, as with any crypto, cannot be taken without the consent of its holder. Even under the extraordinary application of surveillance or torture, XRP can be withheld from both state and private entitie

(Hidden) Wealth ( cash/crypto/gold/daimonds) means nothing if one can’t convert it at any point into material goods or services.   Lambo anyone?   Being ( secretly) wealthy on paper, but liv

If the rich don't compete for resources or goods, then why are they a problem? Isn't it the goods and services that money can buy that's important? Not the money itself? If the rich simply sit on pile

5 hours ago, Wandering_Dog said:

XRP, as with any crypto, cannot be taken without the consent of its holder. Even under the extraordinary application of surveillance or torture, XRP can be withheld from both state and private entities. Subsequently, the enforcement of taxation, which forms the basis of monetary economies, and the enforcement of judgments obtained from courts of law, which forms the basis of contracts, undermines the possibility of using XRP or any currently existing crypto instruments as a means of settling exchange.

More importantly, however, given this indelible nature of crypto assets, is the potential for XRP to make wealth and income inequality a permanent feature of society at the time of adoption. Regardless of which group holds political power of a national sovereign, once XRP is accepted by the state as a means of payment, the current distribution of financial assets can be effectively converted into indelible crypto form, free of any democratically led sovereign intervention. Once this occurs, it means that the redistribution of wealth from current wealth holders would become impossible--as no amount of taxation can be enforced and no court judgement can be enforced. Those XRP assets, and any other assortment of crypto assets, could only be attacked by the majority by orphaning those systems from other payment networks.

In other words, if XRP was accepted as means of payment, and it became a standard, there would become no way to correct a liberal economic system once as it tends towards its final monopolistic state. The result would be a fragmentation of the crypto payment system to orphan those assets, in order to correct the imbalances in income and wealth and resolve stagnation. 

In even simpler terms, even if a crypto solution is impelmented, it cannot by definition of a liberal economic system persist for a long time horizon. And, the inequality that exists at the time of the implementation becomes baseline for the system itself--as the imbalance cannot ever be corrected for through taxation or court order.

Rather than seeing XRP as a means of freeing yourself from the grips of the system you live in today--it is the exact opposite. It gives the 1% a means to conceal their wealth from society, to make their power permanent and prevent any correction to those systemic imbalances--you would in effect never be capable of being better off than you are today.    

Is this supposed to be a criticism? Seems more like a feature than a bug.

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34 minutes ago, Montoya said:

Is this supposed to be a criticism? Seems more like a feature than a bug.

I'd say it's an observation. I was listening to talk on policy changes to reduce stagnation and taxation was a key point in the talk. SOmeone was arguing about tax flight as a counter argument to increase or more progressive taxes, and a neuron connected with another neuron, and I started wondering if redistribution is actually possible in a crypto-only universe. I thought, "well ****, is crypto the "rocket to Mars" for rich people, but it's being sold as a poor-man's cure? Was hoping to hear other people's thoughts on the topic. 

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2 minutes ago, Wandering_Dog said:

I'd say it's an observation. I was listening to talk on policy changes to reduce stagnation and taxation was a key point in the talk. SOmeone was arguing about tax flight as a counter argument to increase or more progressive taxes, and a neuron connected with another neuron, and I started wondering if redistribution is actually possible in a crypto-only universe. I thought, "well ****, is crypto the "rocket to Mars" for rich people, but it's being sold as a poor-man's cure? Was hoping to hear other people's thoughts on the topic. 

I hear you. Interesting topic anyway. You are right that it is a good to hash these things out wherever one stands on the issue of the efficacy or ethics of tax based redistribution.

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56 minutes ago, ringer2 said:

Uhh, where does gold act like a currency? And I think you meant it was designed as a bridge currency, not an exchange currency. 

Same thing..? Gold is interchangeable for any fiat across the globe. Gold just doesn't have a suite of features built into it. XRP can do many more nifty things than just a dumb pile of gold. By dumb I mean incapable of doing anything except sitting in a vault. This is the difference between gold and XRP but that's just my opinion after 3 years of intense research

Edited by XRPwinning
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5 hours ago, Tinyaccount said:

The whole OP is riddled with incorrect assumptions.  And it leads to the exact opposite of the true situation...  the new Fintech is going to be like a Renaissance that empowers many who currently have no hope of being involved in their economies.  Of course the wealthy elite will do spectacularly well as they always do,  but this new tech is an enabler for many new ventures that will spread wealth around as the pie grows.

THIS!

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14 minutes ago, Wandering_Dog said:

It doesn't matter, because the rich don't consume, so a vat won't achieve the desired redistributive effects. 

If the rich don't compete for resources or goods, then why are they a problem? Isn't it the goods and services that money can buy that's important? Not the money itself? If the rich simply sit on piles of XRP, but don't consume, that means more goods and services at lower prices for the poor. 

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1 hour ago, Wandering_Dog said:

I was listening to talk on policy changes to reduce stagnation and taxation was a key point in the talk. SOmeone was [SOCIALISTS were] arguing about tax flight as a counter argument to increase or more progressive taxes, and a neuron connected with another neuron, and I started wondering if redistribution [spending more OPM]

 

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8 hours ago, Wandering_Dog said:

XRP, as with any crypto, cannot be taken without the consent of its holder. Even under the extraordinary application of surveillance or torture, XRP can be withheld from both state and private entities. Subsequently, the enforcement of taxation, which forms the basis of monetary economies, and the enforcement of judgments obtained from courts of law, which forms the basis of contracts, undermines the possibility of using XRP or any currently existing crypto instruments as a means of settling exchange.

More importantly, however, given this indelible nature of crypto assets, is the potential for XRP to make wealth and income inequality a permanent feature of society at the time of adoption. Regardless of which group holds political power of a national sovereign, once XRP is accepted by the state as a means of payment, the current distribution of financial assets can be effectively converted into indelible crypto form, free of any democratically led sovereign intervention. Once this occurs, it means that the redistribution of wealth from current wealth holders would become impossible--as no amount of taxation can be enforced and no court judgement can be enforced. Those XRP assets, and any other assortment of crypto assets, could only be attacked by the majority by orphaning those systems from other payment networks.

In other words, if XRP was accepted as means of payment, and it became a standard, there would become no way to correct a liberal economic system once as it tends towards its final monopolistic state. The result would be a fragmentation of the crypto payment system to orphan those assets, in order to correct the imbalances in income and wealth and resolve stagnation. 

In even simpler terms, even if a crypto solution is impelmented, it cannot by definition of a liberal economic system persist for a long time horizon. And, the inequality that exists at the time of the implementation becomes baseline for the system itself--as the imbalance cannot ever be corrected for through taxation or court order.

Rather than seeing XRP as a means of freeing yourself from the grips of the system you live in today--it is the exact opposite. It gives the 1% a means to conceal their wealth from society, to make their power permanent and prevent any correction to those systemic imbalances--you would in effect never be capable of being better off than you are today.    

I would say you are correct.. however a sword cuts both ways.. As always, it depends on whether the individual independence gained from owning such assets outweigh the disadvantages on the other side of the equation. There is no black and white answer here.

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7 minutes ago, richxrp said:

I would say you are correct.. however a sword cuts both ways.. As always, it depends on whether the individual independence gained from owning such assets outweigh the disadvantages on the other side of the equation. There is no black and white answer here.

All I saw were like nineteen hand-wavey predications leading to an anxietal conclusion.  If you saw something in there to either affirm or deny, you are a better reader than I.

I do note that you hand-waved the double-edged sword, back at him, though... so...:hi:  

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11 minutes ago, NightJanitor said:

All I saw were like nineteen hand-wavey predications leading to an anxietal conclusion.  If you saw something in there to either affirm or deny, you are a better reader than I.

I do note that you hand-waved the double-edged sword, back at him, though... so...:hi:  

From what I gather, all It boils down to is that the technology (crypto) enables holders to store their wealth beyond the reach of interested third parties i.e. authorities such as governments, taxman etc. All I'm saying is that you can look at it from the perspective of gaining independence from said authorities also ( which in case they are bad actors would be a good thing to have). So like anything it cuts both ways, you can't have 100% democratization and 100% liberty ..

Also, it (crypto) is more convenient than burying your treasure and hiding a secret map to the location ... as you don't have to physically go dig it up to retrieve it..

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2 hours ago, Wandering_Dog said:

It doesn't matter, because the rich don't consume, so a vat won't achieve the desired redistributive effects. 

Your whole post smacks of hard core socialism/communism. Last time I checked GOVERNMENT is the problem. Nobody who lives under a centralized government shares your point of view. If they do, it’s because their government hasn’t run out of spending other people’s money YET. The fact that government can’t seize control or tax through bail-ins is exactly why this globalized world needs Fintech. If you love government control so much why don’t you move to Hong Kong, you’re missing out on your high water mark moment.

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