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2 hours ago, tulo said:

Trust is global? xRapid still need to go through 2 exchanges! Are exchanges trustless? Why should I trust more two shady crypto exchange than two banks? It still doesn't make sense to me.

Yes all the shady exchanges in the world will together form a trusted network, with very a simple consensus algorithm about reaching quick global consensus about the order in which up to 1500 transactions per second were received.

The trust that is global, is the trust that all validators agree with the outcome of the order of transactions in a single 3 second window. and that order is a trivial issue that nobody cares about, because you cannot spend money that you do not have anyway.

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How does it alleviate the problem of counterparty risk without an asset? One of these blockchain messaging applications may win out, but they are categorically different than Ripple. It is the token t

The article is very low on actual information, so I went here :- https://www.jpmorgan.com/country/TH/en/detail/1320570135560 It's a messaging system, as I thought it had to be.  In othe

Largest Number of Banks to Join Live Application of Blockchain Technology https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190919005223/en/J.P.-Morgan-Interbank-Information-Network®-Grows-300 J.P. M

The entire world has been run on a debit and credit system electronically and pre-funded accounts for years now.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/wiretransfer.asp
"The sender of a wire transfer first pays for the transaction upfront at his bank. The recipient's bank receives all the necessary information from the initiating bank and deposits its own reserve funds into the correct account. The two banking institutions then settle the payment on the back end, after the money has been deposited. This is why no physical transfer is made during a wire transfer."
 

Only true if those banks have a relationship...
Dont know whats your bank but I doubt it has some 11000 relationship?
Ever have been wiring from your bank to a foreign bank with no mutual relationship? I did ... In short: slow, expensive and unreliable. And you know what? Most of your fee goes to corresponting banks “serving” for connection and .... settlement. At best you may do it (a bit cheaper) with one, but often you need a correspondent on both sides. And speed will not make them work for free you know.
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6 minutes ago, tulo said:

Because IOUs are again tokens. Still a 3rd party involved which you need to trust. Infact many XRPL gateways failed badly and people lost their money.

Central banks could issue fiat IOUs on XRPL.

Do you mean connecting separate central bank ledgers?

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17 hours ago, Archbob said:

If they can communicate with the messages extremely fast, you can settle within seconds like xCurrent and Swift GPI and JP Morgan's IIN. They don't really need to be IOUs. Yes, they are pre-funded accounts but the faster you get the communications through, the less you need in those pre-funded accounts.

The only thing that could make banks hold LESS Nostro/Vostro would be if that cash pile could be delivered faster, so their "Just In Time" window could be smaller.  Faster messaging won't allow them to replenish their cash piles faster so I don't see how that makes a difference to the amount of Nostro/Vostro required.

17 hours ago, Archbob said:

Even with the XRP method, you need the Market Makers to hold large pools of XRP liquidity to make it work. System wise you are just switching holding Nostro/Vostro from holding large pools of XRP.

A market maker makes money so willingly holds XRP, Nostro/Vostro are an opportunity cost, so banks reluctantly keep those cash piles - that's the difference.

17 hours ago, Archbob said:

Really, I see bridge currencies being needed in the developing countries but I don't think they'll be needed in the major corridors. An USD/Euro corridor is really easy to set up right now because those two XRP markets are highly liquid and have many pairs, but they really aren't setting that up since I doubt it really saves them anything over the traditional methods.

Ripple were never targeting highly liquid corridors in the first place.  Why would they? They've always said they would target the more "exotic" corridors. 

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2 minutes ago, 2ndtimearound said:

The only thing that could make banks hold LESS Nostro/Vostro would be if that cash pile could be delivered faster, so their "Just In Time" window could be smaller.  Faster messaging won't allow them to replenish their cash piles faster so I don't see how that makes a difference to the amount of Nostro/Vostro required.

A market maker makes money so willingly holds XRP, Nostro/Vostro are an opportunity cost, so banks reluctantly keep those cash piles - that's the difference.

Ripple were never targeting highly liquid corridors in the first place.  Why would they? They've always said they would target the more "exotic" corridors. 

Where they struggle to generate liquidity ?

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Just now, 2ndtimearound said:

The only thing that could make banks hold LESS Nostro/Vostro would be if that cash pile could be delivered faster, so their "Just In Time" window could be smaller.  Faster messaging won't allow them to replenish their cash piles faster so I don't see how that makes a difference to the amount of Nostro/Vostro required.

A market maker makes money so willingly holds XRP, Nostro/Vostro are an opportunity cost, so banks reluctantly keep those cash piles - that's the difference.

Ripple were never targeting highly liquid corridors in the first place.  Why would they? They've always said they would target the more "exotic" corridors. 

1. Its an eletronic transfer, nothing needs to be physically delivered. Faster messaging is faster settlements. Swift GPI was able to settle in 17 seconds between Australia and Singapore because it hooked up to the countries RTGS systems

2. You don't make money just by holding XRP. Nostro/Vostro does make big banks like Citiroup money, they charge other banks to use the service just like market makers in the future will charge for people to use the XRP liquidity pools. Its still a pool of value you have to hold regardless if its fiat or xrp.

3. Yes, because there's nothing to be saved in the liquid corridors, but that does trim down the size of the market. Liquid corridors are the majority of the world's transfers. Even though exotic ones are growing and represents a great opportunity.

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4 minutes ago, Archbob said:

. Its an eletronic transfer, nothing needs to be physically delivered. Faster messaging is faster settlements. Swift GPI was able to settle in 17 seconds between Australia and Singapore because it hooked up to the countries RTGS systems

Why do banks hold Nostro/Vostro? I would love for you to answer that - I alluded to that question earlier but you dodged it.  I wonder if you will dodge that question again.

5 minutes ago, Archbob said:

2. You don't make money just by holding XRP. Nostro/Vostro does make big banks like Citiroup money, they charge other banks to use the service just like market makers in the future will charge for people to use the XRP liquidity pools. Its still a pool of value you have to hold regardless if its fiat or xrp.

Market makers make money by buying and selling XRP.  That's why they are market makers.  You equated market makers to Nostro/Vostro.  Nostro/Vostro are an opportunity cost - that money could be invested elsewhere.  Market makers are utilising their XRP on the markets and doing what they want to do with them.

8 minutes ago, Archbob said:

3. Yes, because there's nothing to be saved in the liquid corridors, but that does trim down the size of the market. Liquid corridors are the majority of the world's transfers. Even though exotic ones are growing and represents a great opportunity.

Well there we agree on something.  And Ripple have never ever targeted highly liquid corridors - there's not much they can add to those corridors. There's a lot of illiquid corridors that could be a lot more liquid, but people don't use them because they're expensive to use.  International businesses would rather hold piles of USD or some other liquid currency and deal with cross-border that way...a de facto Vostro.  Then they can pay their suppliers faster.  Imagine if they didn't need to do that? Illiquidity between many fiat pairs is a worldwide problem. 

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1 hour ago, Archbob said:

Swift GPI was able to settle in 17 seconds between Australia and Singapore because it hooked up to the countries RTGS systems

This is incorrect Archbob.  Swift is able to "settle" in seconds not settle in seconds.  And the reason it is able to "settle" is because the diminishing banks that are using SWIFT allow the correspondent bank to "credit" that money, then settle after the fact.  It's not technology it's a handshake. They still have money tied up in each other, rather than using a liquidity intermediary.  The consumer does receive a benefit of speed you are correct.  But the banks experience a tremendous amount of friction (read: cost) compared to real "instant" settlement.  It's a patch over a sore of a 60+ year old system.  Let's not conflate that experience (for banks) with the digital asset experience of 2019/20.  

There is a reason all central banks globally are moving over to this new fangled crazy system.  And it's not SWIFT GPI which is foretelling their future.  Banks are deleveraging from SWIFT because of its cost, and these new technologies coming into place are replacing the old.  Is SWIFT dead?  No, of course not.  The most liquid corridors use it by default.  The world is not filled with liquid corridors however, and SWIFT is losing ground globally- much of it by the banks own choice of "derisking" (read: not wanting to tie up money in fragile economies). Correspondent banking is changing, not staying the same.

https://bankingjournal.aba.com/2018/11/basel-decline-in-global-correspondent-banking-relationships-accelerates/

https://www.regulationasia.com/decline-in-correspondent-banking-relationships-is-universal-cpmi/

https://www.pymnts.com/news/international/2018/correspondent-banking-global-regulations/

https://www.bobsguide.com/guide/news/2018/Mar/5/the-re-shaping-of-correspondent-banking-impacts-on-banking-treasury/

 

As Larry "Bud" Melman once said - "All our bus seats face the front.  Look where you're going, not where you've been."

 

PEACE!

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2 hours ago, 2ndtimearound said:

Why do banks hold Nostro/Vostro? I would love for you to answer that - I alluded to that question earlier but you dodged it.  I wonder if you will dodge that question again.

Market makers make money by buying and selling XRP.  That's why they are market makers.  You equated market makers to Nostro/Vostro.  Nostro/Vostro are an opportunity cost - that money could be invested elsewhere.  Market makers are utilising their XRP on the markets and doing what they want to do with them.

 

1. The large correspondent banks charge for people to use their accounts. Banks like Citibank make a lot from these accounts

2. That only works if XRP is rising a price. Market Makers have been losing money all of this year. They also need to hold much of that pool around to support X-rapid, they can't just sell their liquidity pool.

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46 minutes ago, xrphilosophy said:

This is incorrect Archbob.  Swift is able to "settle" in seconds not settle in seconds.  And the reason it is able to "settle" is because the diminishing banks that are using SWIFT allow the correspondent bank to "credit" that money, then settle after the fact.  It's not technology it's a handshake. They still have money tied up in each other, rather than using a liquidity intermediary.  The consumer does receive a benefit of speed you are correct.  But the banks experience a tremendous amount of friction (read: cost) compared to real "instant" settlement.  It's a patch over a sore of a 60+ year old system.  Let's not conflate that experience (for banks) with the digital asset experience of 2019/20.  

 

I'm pretty sure that is incorrect if the countries that SWIFT is bridging have their own Real Time Gross Settlement Systems. The articles specifically said they settled within that time. The trick is that countries have to already have their own RTGS systems. Its only in XRP chats that people refuse to believe it.

 

https://www.swift.com/news-events/press-releases/swift-sees-success-with-global-instant-cross-border-payments-with-singapore_s-fast

"The successful trial which involved 17 banks across seven countries – Australia, China, Canada, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Singapore and Thailand – saw payments between all continents settle within 25 seconds; the fastest in just 13 seconds. This major advance extends the speed and transparency of SWIFT gpi deeper into domestic markets, reaching a wider set of ultimate beneficiary accounts around the world."

and 

"All payments were processed end-to-end within 25 seconds"

Not just credited, settled.

It won't work with the exotic corridors because most of those countries don't have RTGS systems and right now the US doesn't either(but I guess it could hook into The Clearing House).

Edited by Archbob
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2 hours ago, 2ndtimearound said:

That's the whole point...that these corridors already lack liquidity, and are already expensive to transact. 

Ripple have had a hard enough time generating liquidity in the 2 or 3 xrapid corridors that currently exist. How on earth will they generate liquidity in exotic corridors is beyond me, when they are struggling as it is.

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