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Ripple Avoids Securities Question in Motion to Dismiss XRP Lawsuit

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9 hours ago, automatic said:

In case the answer is not clear - gold is a commodity.  So is xrp. 

Case closed.

Gold is a true commodity because it does not have a single supplier that can manipulate price.  Ripple at will can sell, buyback and distribute its product and affect the price anyway they wish.   That does not make it a commodity, it makes a manipulative asset. 

Edited by Spekul8

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16 minutes ago, Spekul8 said:

Gold is a true commodity because it does not have a single supplier that can manipulate price.  Ripple at will can sell, buyback and distribute its product and affect the price anyway they wish.   That does not make it a commodity, it makes a manipulative asset. 

The same could be said for diamonds and silver and gold...  remember the Hunt Brothers?   DeBeers?  

So being able to corner a market and manipulate price does not preclude the thing from being a commodity.

Not arguing it is...  just saying your argument is flawed.

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6 hours ago, Spekul8 said:

Gold is a true commodity because it does not have a single supplier that can manipulate price.  Ripple at will can sell, buyback and distribute its product and affect the price anyway they wish.   That does not make it a commodity, it makes a manipulative asset. 

Isn't this the same true for diamonds? Which are a commodity I suppose?

Edited by SquaryBone
EDIT: nvm, should have read the next comment :p

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Gold is a true commodity because it does not have a single supplier that can manipulate price.  Ripple at will can sell, buyback and distribute its product and affect the price anyway they wish.   That does not make it a commodity, it makes a manipulative asset. 

In some way this is correct and .... not correct. The Jed case even being a proof that Ripple made an effort to keep control over the price. But.... it also made clear that they are NOT the only suppliers and that there are a few individuals holding a mass of XRP....

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12 hours ago, Spekul8 said:

Gold is a true commodity because it does not have a single supplier that can manipulate price.  Ripple at will can sell, buyback and distribute its product and affect the price anyway they wish.   That does not make it a commodity, it makes a manipulative asset. 

Ah, you mean like oil where OPEC can constrict or increase supply to drive prices in a particular direction?

Still sounds like a commodity to me.

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20 hours ago, Spekul8 said:

Gold is a true commodity because it does not have a single supplier that can manipulate price.  Ripple at will can sell, buyback and distribute its product and affect the price anyway they wish.   That does not make it a commodity, it makes a manipulative asset. 

Gold is a commodity simply because you dig it out of the ground and turn it into a distinctive tangible asset of known molecular structure, purity and weight, that is prized by most humans.

In its derivative forms, gold is manipulated every day through the collusion of bullion banks (that are owned by a handful of shadowy bond kings), who take advantage of the 100:1 average in the futures markets....not that different than what crypto whales do with BTC and alts.  This can happen because it is to the advantage of sovereign governments to let it happen.

All these arguments about whether XRP and some other cryptos fit the definition of commodities is somewhat specious. In the final analysis, XRP is what the government says it is, end of story. For our purposes, that is what matters, and we won't know until they tell us.

I tend to think that XRP will NOT be ruled a security, simply because Coinbase listed it...and they have an inside track to know what is coming that we, as retail longs lack.  And they have a powerful incentive to avoid listing what might be called an unregulated security.

To me XRP fits the definition of a currency...and it fits just fine...but that has certain negative connotations to TBTB who have the monopoly on printing fiat money. So it will likely be called something else......they might call it a commodity, out of convenience and to distinguish it from sovereign money. This must be done for it to be accepted...that looks pretty clear to me.

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19 minutes ago, dr_ed said:

In the final analysis, XRP is what the government says it is, end of story.

In that case it’s a utility token.  UK, Singapore, France and others all say so.

Oh you meant the United States government?   :) 

 

Damn yanks think they own the world....   :)    (Just pullin ya chain Doc...   no disrespect intended.   :) )

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Just now, Tinyaccount said:

In that case it’s a utility token.  UK, Singapore, France and others all say so.

Oh you meant the United States government?   :) 

 

Damn yanks think they own the world....   :)    (Just pullin ya chain Doc...   no disrespect intended.   :) )

Sorry, but it matters a lot. Because without US regulatory clarity, nothing is going to happen.

I don't happen to love that the US is stalling. I do think it's on purpose, and at the behest of the big banks.

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1 minute ago, dr_ed said:

Sorry, but it matters a lot.

Yeah mate, no need to be sorry, it’s ok...   I know.  Those of us that don’t live in FreedomLand don’t necessarily like it much,  but the US is the 800lb gorilla in all this.  That may not last for much longer though...   

(the loss of US world leadership is not something I would celebrate though...  even if imperfectly, it stood for some very noble values)

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On 9/22/2019 at 8:41 AM, automatic said:

 

 

Here's a more relatable example for you guys:

I prospect for gold and strike upon one of the richest veins in the world.  I partner up with some guys and we divide the claim so that each of us gets 20%, and we assign the rest to our newlyfound mining company.   The company mines gold and sells it to the market.  To improve business, we start a global campaign working with social media influencers to promote gold jewelry and increase demand.   We also work various other angles to try to increase use of gold in the electronics and conductor industries.   At this point, approximately 50% of the estimated gold vein yield has been mined and sold to the market.  The remaining 50% are still controlled by the company and the original founders.

Some buyers purchase gold because they believe it will appreciate in value over time, others buy gold from the secondary markets in the form of gold jewelry because they are swayed by the social media influencers, and yet others buy gold because it has utilitarian value in electronics industry.

Are purchasers of gold unwittingly buying unlicensed gold mine securities?

In case the answer is not clear - gold is a commodity.  So is xrp. 

Case closed.

This is a fantastic example and clears the air quite well on the security front.

That said, if we take this and consider the notion that Ripple generates the majority of its revenue via XRP sales, it does not bode well for the long haul for them. This would mean their primary model would be as a commodity seller, and they are primarily creating products to facilitate the sales of said commodity.  Otherwise they could have done Series C/D rounds, or retained earnings as a result of various other operations as opposed to using XRP to fund growth.  This would give rise to a few problems in particular that come to mind:

1) XRP is finite

2) There are so many VC and various other groups that have invested in Ripple that, while terms may vary on their respective agreements, the growth expectations are all pretty given especially as some of these groups look to begin to exit per their fund mandate. 

3) In lieu of XRP price rising (whether it be via utility gains or speculation), they have to continue selling XRP in order to generate revenue.  Assuming xCurrent is a subscription based product it doesn't help that many competitors are wising up with their own options for transaction speed.  This creates an increasing pressure for XRP sales, whether it be via pushing xRapid and ramping up sales to banks, or various other projects xSpring, etc. The increasing sales pressure places downward price pressure on the price of the commodity, similar to what the dairy industry has suffered with milk and why supply management is a thing in some countries such as Canada.

Long and short of it is, hopefully they are able to find other reliable, defensible, and strong income streams aside from the sale of XRP.

Food for thought.

Edited by slipstreamer

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