Jump to content
Lamberth

Coil: Why We Are Giving Away $100m to Creators with Mozilla and Creative Commons

Recommended Posts

26 minutes ago, macropolo said:

Do people who are already using the Coil platform to blog qualify for grants?  Or is the intent here to attract some bigger names not yet on Coil?

It seems there are no restrictions but you can double check with Dees if you’d like to participate - https://forum.grantfortheweb.org/t/hi-from-the-program-team/22/2

Edited by Lamberth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Partnering with CC and Mozilla on this is no doubt a great move. But I still scratch my head at the strategy for these payouts.

Is Coil  trying to grow the ecosystem of payment connectors?

The network of content creators?

Content consumers?

All 3 at once?

An open system like ILP is designed to eat away at walled gardens, but a pure focus on open-licenses and indie players is severely limiting. There's a reason most content is produced by larger companies like Netflix -- they've created business models, own IP and can afford to invest billions in content every year. If there were a way to ILP-ize the payment activity of larger ecosystems -- setting aside streaming payments as an eventual secondary goal down-the-line -- it would create big connections for other players like PayPal or Amex to plug into, and more importantly, an incentive for those players to invest in ILP-izing their gateways.

I know you can't start this revolution by routing all Netflix subscriptions into XRP, but this feels like a scenario where bottom-up (starting with streaming payments) is introducing too much 'new' into an ecosystem that needs a foundation.

Basically, my hot take is that ILP needs an xCurrent. They need to optimize the existing network of payment types by connecting those channels, payment gateways and corporate accounts via ILP intermediaries (without XRP) before they can start doing the fancy stuff. Streaming payments are their xRapid -- an inevitable future goal, but too much of a bet for heavyweights right now. $100M for open source software is a nice start but maybe not the best one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe they can install an xrp wallet into the system or have coil as an easy option so people can learn by using the platform. Just throwing it out there. I think, but by no means do I know, that they are throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Being early means no one really knows how to get web monetization to work or how it will work long term. Personally I expect 90% of what coil tries to fail, but then what is learned form the 10% of successes will lead to better mapping. The only reference I have is when I helped start a business, the first five years were filled with mistakes and it felt like I was always going back and fixing or tweaking something I had done one year earlier. I no longer make those mistakes and life is better, progress is more precise and the outcome is generally predetermined with little back tracking.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This business model is looking dumber as we move forward.

  • Looks like they are using $100 million (primary raised from selling XRP to retail investors) to fund these initiatives over next ~ 5 years. So what happens when this $100 million dries up, how are they gong to legitimately get a business model that will support content creators to use Coil, rather than advertising alternatives like Google? In 5 years, how is a web monetization model going to compete with advertising models that currently generate over 5X the revenue? Majority of internet users are not going to be paying 5x+ out of their pockets to make up for no advertising.
  • Mozilla is a dying web browser.  One of the many broken business models and businesses Ripple has invested in lately: https://fourweekmba.com/how-does-mozilla-make-money/.  Mozilla is getting destroyed by Google Chrome.  Which is ironic that Google Chrome recently dominated the market, while organizations like Coil and Mozilla are claiming the current advertising model is broken and not what consumers want.  I am pretty sure Google's revenue and customer base in the last few years proves this wrong.
  • Mozilla is trying to push an alternative to add based content.  From my understanding ~95% of Mozilla's revenue comes from license agreements from Google (formally from Yahoo).  Which Google and Yahoo are raising funds for Mozilla, based on advertising revenue they generate for having Mozilla use their search engines by default. So Mozilla is trying to say the current model is broken, that generates ~95% of their revenue?  Even if they are right, then they are going in direct completion with Google.  Good luck with partnering with them in the future. 

For the sake of XRP, hopefully I am proved wrong in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, wogojump said:

In 5 years, how is a web monetization model going to compete with advertising models that currently generate over 5X the revenue? Majority of internet users are not going to be paying 5x+ out of their pockets to make up for no advertising.

You must have spend at least 15 minutes writing that article. How much revenue did that create for you? Zero. You may not care. Other talented writers will.

You are being robbed now. Web payments will change that completely. The net result is that you will be paying LESS for better content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ADingoAteMyXRP said:

Partnering with CC and Mozilla on this is no doubt a great move. But I still scratch my head at the strategy for these payouts.

Is Coil  trying to grow the ecosystem of payment connectors?

The network of content creators?

Content consumers?

All 3 at once?

An open system like ILP is designed to eat away at walled gardens, but a pure focus on open-licenses and indie players is severely limiting. There's a reason most content is produced by larger companies like Netflix -- they've created business models, own IP and can afford to invest billions in content every year. If there were a way to ILP-ize the payment activity of larger ecosystems -- setting aside streaming payments as an eventual secondary goal down-the-line -- it would create big connections for other players like PayPal or Amex to plug into, and more importantly, an incentive for those players to invest in ILP-izing their gateways.

I know you can't start this revolution by routing all Netflix subscriptions into XRP, but this feels like a scenario where bottom-up (starting with streaming payments) is introducing too much 'new' into an ecosystem that needs a foundation.

Basically, my hot take is that ILP needs an xCurrent. They need to optimize the existing network of payment types by connecting those channels, payment gateways and corporate accounts via ILP intermediaries (without XRP) before they can start doing the fancy stuff. Streaming payments are their xRapid -- an inevitable future goal, but too much of a bet for heavyweights right now. $100M for open source software is a nice start but maybe not the best one.

Now, the overall ILP Web Monetization project is being developed by almost 400 participants/members of the Interledger W3C Community Group, however, being that Stefan was one of the co-founders of the protocol, It makes perfect sense for Coil to be at the for-front for helping to contribute to all three: Payment connectors, Content Creators (i.e. Coil & Cinnamon) and Content Consumers.  

To your concern regarding the need to reach a larger audience (i.e. Netflix, Amazon Prime Videos, etc.) Stefan mentioned in the extended Ripple Drop episode (01:48 - End) back on September 5th that partnering with larger platform and Internet service providers where you have a Coil bundle as part of your subscription to Netflix, Hulu, Charter, etc. 

Why would ILP need xCurrent (a closed-permissioned network)? The whole point of ILP is to create an open standard for all to build upon similarly to how xCurrent was developed based upon ILP technology. Also, web-monetization is about sending "low-value" high-volume" streaming transactions/payments via the internet. xCurrent is built for sending/settling large chunky payments for banks and corporates.  "Connecting those channels, payment gateways and corporate accounts via ILP" as you mentioned above is what Rafiki is being built to handle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, wogojump said:

This business model is looking dumber as we move forward.

...

46 minutes ago, wogojump said:

Majority of internet users are not going to be paying 5x+ out of their pockets to make up for no advertising.

Correct, but when the total market size is approximately 4 billion internet connected people worldwide you don't the majority. 

A large newspaper in the UK (The Times / Sunday Times) now currently has 500,000 users paying a subscription starting from £2 per week for content.
15.4 million UK users have subscriptions to either Netflix, Amazon Prime or Now TV.
Spotify has around 10 million UK users.
YouTube Premium.... not sure

Now... are you trying to tell me there is no market for a pay as you go solution? Potentially one Coil subscription that would let you seamlessly move from online journalism, to music, to TV shows, to favourite vlogger with just one account, paying just for only what you consume?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, dik said:

You must have spend at least 15 minutes writing that article. How much revenue did that create for you? Zero. You may not care. Other talented writers will.

You are being robbed now. Web payments will change that completely. The net result is that you will be paying LESS for better content.

How will the net result be paying less for better content? Talented content/writers are going to gravitate towards using business models that generate the most revenue for them.  Other threads have already compared the revenue generated from $5 Coil subscription models vs advertising.  Advertising is brining in significantly more money for content creators.  Top content creators on sites like Twitch and YouTube are brining in millions of dollars a year from advertising.  Coil $5 subscription so far as shown to not be able to get any where close to revenue from advertising.

Talented writers and content creators are going to stick with using business models like advertising, as long as it generates more revenue for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, XRP-JAG said:

...

Correct, but when the total market size is approximately 4 billion internet connected people worldwide you don't the majority. 

A large newspaper in the UK (The Times / Sunday Times) now currently has 500,000 users paying a subscription starting from £2 per week for content.
15.4 million UK users have subscriptions to either Netflix, Amazon Prime or Now TV.
Spotify has around 10 million UK users.
YouTube Premium.... not sure

Now... are you trying to tell me there is no market for a pay as you go solution? Potentially one Coil subscription that would let you seamlessly move from online journalism, to music, to TV shows, to favourite vlogger with just one account, paying just for only what you consume?

I am not positive what majority you are referring to?  Are you debating 2+ billion internet users will be paying $30+ a month for Coil so they can use the internet with out advertisements?  I am debating there will be a small percentage of internet users that will justify this amount of money to use the internet with out advertising.

I would agree there is a small market for pay as you go solution.  But, this is a minority.  Majority of the content creators and internet users will utilize the business model that provides greatest revenues at least costs to consumers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, wogojump said:

How will the net result be paying less for better content? Talented content/writers are going to gravitate towards using business models that generate the most revenue for them.  Other threads have already compared the revenue generated from $5 Coil subscription models vs advertising.  Advertising is brining in significantly more money for content creators.  Top content creators on sites like Twitch and YouTube are brining in millions of dollars a year from advertising.  Coil $5 subscription so far as shown to not be able to get any where close to revenue from advertising.

Talented writers and content creators are going to stick with using business models like advertising, as long as it generates more revenue for them.

Do you think this just happens over night?

Let's rewind say 5-10 years.... 

"The top actors, writers and producers are always going to work on Hollywood blockbusters and major movies"

And it's true, until suddenly you look around one day and find the biggest names in the industry are in huge budget TV series, with bigger budgets than most films. When did that happen? How did that happen? Somebody changed the rules of the game and tempted that talent to something new. They didn't all come over at once, a few did, then a few more, and a few more after that... now A list celeb in a TV series is fairly common.

Same applies to the gaming sector, it's following the same pattern as above right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, wasniewskikamil said:

You guys never heard of Medium?

Basically it's very similar to Coil with their 5$ subscription, but it's more popular website.

Currently Medium is having more acclaimed publishers. Coil will have to work really hard to attract them to their business.

Medium sounds like a competitor.

Coil offers fiat to fiat cross border streamed micro payments linked to usage

Can Medium do the same in dollars and Yen and pay in pounds?  Is it as cheap to run?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...