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TTI Vanguard - 12 Sept - Bradley Chase - Amazing XRP presentation

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This is the first time I have seen Bradley Chase give a talk. He comes across as being very knowledgeable and confident. It's good to see him competently answer questions without putting a marketing hype veneer over the top things. Some people would query the amount of development that still has to take place, but that is what happens as a new and vast projects throws up new demands. I think Ripple can handle the technical complexities, but it emphasises that this is a long game - it's the added non-technical problem of regulation around the world that exacerbates the issues.

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Great questions! Regulation came up a couple of times and it seemed clear that he viewed this as the major hurdle holding things up currently. This video made me really realise for the first time just how early we are in this. Wow!

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1 hour ago, xrphilosophy said:

Anyone holding XRP should watch this.  Excellent questions, and better answers.  I really enjoyed it.

no xrp needed to watch

strewth there is some wild wild research going on just in the bits I flicked to

tails for humans and optic neural AI brains that are ftl (faster than light)

9 hrs of data to consume now

 

 

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Fantastic video. Brad did a great job explaining the processes and tech. I am left with several questions, though..

At 1:14:30, a woman asks "Outside of the popular public cryptocurrency exchanges, what are American Express and other type of banks that are a part of Ripple using [that isn't public|?".

It seems pretty clear that she believes there is a specific difference between XRP listed on public exchanges and the product/solution that banks (like American Express) use to send payments between each other. 

He answers by saying that if American Express (or any other Ripple client) has a pre-existing relationship with another bank (bi-lateral relationship), then they can just send a payment without using a digital asset. He highlights that the originating bank has a choice in how they want to send the payment, and they can choose based on whichever will give them a better experience.

I imagine he is distinguishing between xRapid and xCurrent. I have seen literature that says that xCurrent now supports the usage of XRP as well (perhaps through pathfinding or multi-hop - not exactly sure how it works). Assuming that is correct, this leaves me with the following questions:

1.) When a bank/MSB or any payment provider becomes a Ripple client, are they set up with the tools to choose whether they'd like to use xRapid or xCurrent for each payment they make? If so, and if xCurrent is chosen, do they choose whether or not this will leverage XRP for settlement? If it does not leverage xrp for settlement for any given payment, how does this affect the settlement times? Wouldn't pre-funded fiat accounts still be needed?

At 1:17:33 another gentlemen asks "for the Ripple transactions that go from fiat to XRP, do you have a sense of how much of those transactions from borders go back to fiat, or do they stay in XRP?"

Bradley answers with a response that seems a bit dodgy, saying that Ripple has visibility into their enterprise clients' usage, but he isn't able to talk about any specific numbers. He then goes on to highlight that XRP is an open asset that anyone is able to trade, and that when it hits an exchange, exchange ledgers are private information that isn't available to Ripple or anyone else.

2.) Wouldn't most of the xRapid transfers make their way back into fiat at the recipients end? In what specific situations wouldn't a transaction across borders makes it way back into fiat, outside of the scenario of the receiving banks simply accumulating XRP received (opposed to converting it to their national currency)?
 

3.) With Ripple's partnered exchanges (xRapid enabled partners), are we to believe that Ripple has no access or insight into the tracking of volume, frequency, and trades that are occurring on the exchange as a part of their software integrations to support their enterprise business? That wouldn't make a lot of sense, especially when Ripple's entire business model is (currently) structured on relying on these exchanges to power global remittances into exotic corridors and grow liquidity for the network.

At 1:18:40, another woman asks "how is the value of XRP defined and how do you encourage stability in that value?"

Bradley answers saying that " it is the market price, and whatever people are willing to buy it for, and that it can vary across the world in a relative to some spot rate. Right now, for these customers that are using this to send money, like the reference that they are comparing to is what would be the spot rate through the traditional banking system would get."

 

4.) What exactly does this mean? I recently saw someone post data that suggests that Japan's cryptocurrency spot transaction total for July was 88.3 billion yen ($816,947,185 USD), but we are all well are that JPY volume has been hidden from the charts for quite some time now. Perhaps the overall volume (and price) of XRP will rise dramatically once SBI/JPY data is included/aggregated with the rest of the public market data? Does anyone know why this remains hidden?
 

At 1:19:45, another gentleman asks "So institutions can use the Ripple blockchain to send money across to someone where they don't have a peering relationship with, but they can also if they have some kind of relationship with another entity, then they can go out of band from the main blockchain to send transactions. Are those out of band transactions ever represented on the main chain, even in aggregate, or are they just completely "_____"??? ?"

Bradley then cuts him off quickly and answers saying "Yeah, they are completely _____???, so yeah basically, uhh, you can just imagine that the blockchain just doesn't exist for that set of payments. Can anyone make out the underlined part of what was said? Further, what sense should viewers make of this?
 

5.) It seems like they are most certainly referring to a private ledger that banks use that is in no way shared with the public or exposed to it, even for aggregate settlement later on. I would have normally thought that he is referring to private payment channels, but he does not give that impression at all. Should this be concerning for retail holders?
 

At 1:30:25, a gentleman says/asks "You have the two products essentially which one is connecting banks and institutions to each other and then there is XRP for everyone else, but your majority of your volume of transactions are probably gonna go... Your biggest customers are basically out of band with the Ripple/XRP.. Umm, is there any part of like.. ummm.. Does that take away from the value of the core, like, XRP blockchain channel? And is there any opportunity with things like zero knowledge proof or things like that to bring those out of band communications into the main chain?

Bradley responds saying that "Ripple wants to get money moved as easily as possible, because that opens up more opportunities for XRP to be a useful mechanism for sending money, but we just care about making the pie so big so that where the cases that XRP are useful, it can be applied. We are fine if there are some other, better mechanism that institutions want to use, but you are actually right, I think technologically speaking, there are a lot of promise of these zero knowledge proofs and privacy preserving mechanisms that we'd love to see kind of integrated.. There is great work there, but I think they're still figuring out how we can make that a good product experience for banks. Because there is also convincing banks that you can just trust this math, but that is a big hurdle to get big banks on board."


6.) Again, the person asking the question clearly distinguishes that he understands that the software Ripple provides banks is completely separate from the technology that uses XRP, and that XRP use is clearly for everyone else other than banks communicating. This to me seems to suggest that banks aren't comfortable using XRP (at least on chain) due to privacy concerns and trust, and it seems Bradley confirms this but doesn't quite address a solution to the concern. Is this going to be an ongoing hurdle to actual adoption of the digital asset? How is this currently being addressed to ease concerns of banks?

It seems this exact problem of zero knowledge proofs and privacy reserving mechanisms has been solved in a big way by the team at Cornell (Ari Juels), and Chainlink is using this technology to drive adoption in the Finance and insurance industries, as well as many others.

Reference:
- Mixicles White Paper: https://chain.link/mixicles.pdf 

- A great overview of how it works, and why their partners trust it (Swift, Google, Oracle, IC3, etc.): https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chainlink-ceo-mixicles-change-game-183754904.html
 

How is Ripple planning on addressing this problem moving forward? Enterprises clearly care about preserving privacy, so much to the extent that there are open conversations acknowledging that banks/FI's will not use XRP (or at minimum use it on chain) because of these limitations. I hope somebody with the knowledge of all of this can shed some light on these things, because to me, this seems like a far greater roadblock to adoption than regulatory clarity. @JoelKatz @nikb

Edited by XRPboi

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3 hours ago, XRPboi said:

At 1:30:25, a gentleman says/asks "You have the two products essentially which one is connecting banks and institutions to each other and then there is XRP for everyone else, but your majority of your volume of transactions are probably gonna go... Your biggest customers are basically out of band with the Ripple/XRP.. Umm, is there any part of like.. ummm.. Does that take away from the value of the core, like, XRP blockchain channel? And is there any opportunity with things like zero knowledge proof or things like that to bring those out of band communications into the main chain?

Bradley esponds saying that "Ripple wants to get money moved as easily as possible, because that opens up more opportunities for XRP to be a useful mechanism for sending money, but we just care about making the pie so big so that where the cases that XRP are useful, it can be applied. We are fine if there are some other, better mechanism that institutions want to use, but you are actually right, I think technologically speaking, there are a lot of promise of these zero knowledge proofs and privacy preserving mechanisms that we'd love to see kind of integrated.. There is great work there, but I think they're still figuring out how we can make that a good product experience for banks. Because there is also convincing banks that you can just trust this math, but that is a big hurdle to get big banks on board."

Great points you touched on. However, the last one is something I've been struggling to understand myself. I would think that banks that are part of Ripple's private "Permissioned" network in RippleNet would want the same level of privacy via transactions that they could possibly send across xRapid/XRP-Ledger. I think zero knowledge proofs could be an area that Ripple hasn't had time to invest in and develop. This could be where Ripple could acquire/buy-out a company/platform technology and incorporate it into XRP-Ledger/RippleNet stack. Brad did mentioned that they (Ripple) was negotiating several mergers/acquisitions: "......to accelerate our growth and give us more capabilities that serve customer needs is a good place to be.” 

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2 hours ago, King34Maine said:

Great points you touched on. However, the last one is something I've been struggling to understand myself. I would think that banks that are part of Ripple's private "Permissioned" network in RippleNet would want the same level of privacy via transactions that they could possibly send across xRapid/XRP-Ledger. I think zero knowledge proofs could be an area that Ripple hasn't had time to invest in and develop. This could be where Ripple could acquire/buy-out a company/platform technology and incorporate it into XRP-Ledger/RippleNet stack. Brad did mentioned that they (Ripple) was negotiating several mergers/acquisitions: "......to accelerate our growth and give us more capabilities that serve customer needs is a good place to be.” 

I agree, and that is a great reference you bring up. What companies or technologies would allow for such privacy outside of the mixicles I mentioned above? 

Clearly something is going to have to be done before banks are comfortable. In my opinion, all of the participants asking questions in that video are of the opinion that banks aren't really planning to use XRP, just the software solutions. 

I'd love to hear from others regarding the other points I mentioned above as well. I genuinely want to learn and be informed on all of this. 

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8 hours ago, XRPboi said:

I imagine he is distinguishing between xRapid and xCurrent. I have seen literature that says that xCurrent now supports the usage of XRP as well (perhaps through pathfinding or multi-hop - not exactly sure how it works). Assuming that is correct, this leaves me with the following questions:

 

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2 minutes ago, fiik said:

^ no worries

that 'Assuming that is correct' tripped me up ;)

I just want to understand my current gaps in knowledge on all of this. 

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7 hours ago, XRPboi said:

I just want to understand my current gaps in knowledge on all of this. 

In case you haven’t aware, major US banks will be the last group to adopt xrp. US Major banks are under more strict regulation than the smaller banks. 

Ripple’s plan is to adopt xrp from out side of the US first. 

 

 

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