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Great write up, Hodor.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how web monetization may evolve over time as it gains widespread adoption. If ILP/web monetization succeeds in becoming a standard in most web browsers, what might the process look like for users and creators at that point? Will individuals still need to seek out a provider (like Coil) to create an account with upfront, or would this step be embedded into each specific browser upon future updates? At what point might there no longer be a barrier to entry ($5) for users, and is it possible/likely that when WM gains greater adoption, people might not even (need to) know that crypto is facilitating the back-end of the entire process?

I'm looking forward to learning more about this and seeing this space evolve.

p.s. - one grammatical error worth mentioning :drinks: ("and to help customers made the purchase, sites must provide a substantial benefit...")

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Thanks Hodor! Coil rant below:

The web monetization problem is made messy by a failure of Coil to understand that their model is not a replacement for the current model. It's one of many supplements.

Instead of a single subscription to-rule-them-all, Coil should be building a network of organizations that offer different ILP services. Middlemen who can compete with one another on a level playing field to provide the best rates and increase revenues for their content creators. This allows content creators to drive, instead of ensuring power remains centralized.

In short, we need a hundred Coils, and we need existing content networks to open their payment gateways to them.

If I don't mind ads, show me ads. If I offer to pay you directly instead of seeing ads, let me pay you directly. If I want to use my personal XRP or BTC or USD wallet to do that, let me. If I want to hand over personal info to a third party who monetizes that information separately and pays sites for my traffic based on where I visit, let me. If I want to subscribe to a service (like Coil) that charges a monthly fee and then pays out ILP-enabled businesses on my behalf, let me. If I want to attend a focus group in exchange for ILP credits, let me.

Each one of the above middle-layer businesses is a vital node in the ILP network. Content sites can then decide which of those services is valuable. My instinct is that they'll find ALL of them valuable.

It's not winner-take-all. It's not consumer-to-producer bilateral exchange as Coil envisions it. It's multi-hop for content monetization. You need all of these methods to maximize a market share against ad-only models and existing one-off paywalls. Consumers need more than one way to contribute their end to the transaction. From where I'm standing, a $5 per month subscription which is "always on" puts a low, low ceiling on Coil's growth and could represent a lot of wasted XRP for Ripple.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, XRPboi said:

what might the process look like for users and creators at that point?

The evolution of standards will definitely impact the browser experience, IMO; even now, it's great that there's a payment pointer option that most major browsers have agreed on; I'd like to see ILP gain even more traction as time moves forward as well, whether or not users choose XRP or Coil. 

In the beginning, the creators of the Internet foresaw funding and money as being important and necessary, but they didn't fully "complete" it until now.  And even now, it's really not "complete," as your comment alludes.  Hopefully we'll be able to use our crypto as easily (or more so) than using a credit card

online. 

1 hour ago, XRPboi said:

p.s. - one grammatical error worth mentioning :drinks: ("and to help customers made the purchase, sites must provide a substantial benefit...")

Thank you!   I've fixed and re-posted the blog entry on Coil with that correction.  
Note: On Twitter or Reddit, I send a zerp to those that share a correction.  Just drop in your Twitter ID or Reddit ID and I'll make it happen!

Edited by Hodor

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44 minutes ago, ADingoAteMyXRP said:

If I don't mind ads, show me ads. If I offer to pay you directly instead of seeing ads, let me pay you directly. If I want to use my personal XRP or BTC or USD wallet to do that, let me. If I want to hand over personal info to a third party who monetizes that information separately and pays sites for my traffic based on where I visit, let me. If I want to subscribe to a service (like Coil) that charges a monthly fee and then pays out ILP-enabled businesses on my behalf, let me. If I want to attend a focus group in exchange for ILP credits, let me.

What's stopping you from doing this? Sit down and start writing the code. Then go out onto the internet and persuade tens, hundreds or thousands of websites to implement the protocols you've designed to make it happen and adopt your systems.

We can only hope that this is exactly what coil are trying to do. They had to start somewhere, so what we see (so far) is a $5 subscription model. If they were finished, then they would simply sit back and rest, but in fact they've persuaded their parent organisation to give them 1billion xrp to do stuff that we don't yet know about.

Thanks @Hodor for pointing out that the scale of investment in coil is 10x the moneygram one. although I've seen the numbers, I hadn't quite appreciated the magnitude of the investment. (Of course it's easy to donate 1billion xrp that cost you effectively zero...but that's a lot of potential incentivization to bring others players on board...)

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Posted (edited)

Im all in XRP and believe it will succeed, but i've been in many investments where there is always someone who writes up articles explaining why 'said investment' is such a win, only for the investment to ultimately fail. It will be interesting to see what happens with our XRP investment over the next several years and whether or not all of these articles are actually substantiated or end up being all for nothing.

Edited by MegaNerd

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8 minutes ago, jbjnr said:

What's stopping you from doing this? Sit down and start writing the code. Then go out onto the internet and persuade tens, hundreds or thousands of websites to implement the protocols you've designed to make it happen and adopt your systems.

Apologies if my post came off as aggressive. Still, I don't think it's deserving of a "go learn to code" reaction.

I'm not saying what Coil is doing is bad. Of course they have a longterm strategy. The problem is that we haven't heard it yet, which is concerning to me because based on the 10 billion payments they announced they only have a few thousand subscribers, and they just got a $250 million dollar investment. Content monetization is the future of DA's, but the Coil angle is not clear to me yet.

What they're doing is brave, but content paywalls are not disruptive innovation. I want to know what that innovation is and I want to hear the vision.

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6 minutes ago, ADingoAteMyXRP said:

Apologies if my post came off as aggressive. Still, I don't think it's deserving of a "go learn to code" reaction.

I'm not saying what Coil is doing is bad. Of course they have a longterm strategy. The problem is that we haven't heard it yet, which is concerning to me because based on the 10 billion payments they announced they only have a few thousand subscribers, and they just got a $250 million dollar investment. Content monetization is the future of DA's, but the Coil angle is not clear to me yet.

What they're doing is brave, but content paywalls are not disruptive innovation. I want to know what that innovation is and I want to hear the vision.

And apologies on my behalf if my response seemed aggressive. I'm playing devils advocate too, the main point is that the web has been around for 20+ years and until now, nobody (myself included) did anything about WM and micropayments, so it's not really fair to criticise coil right away - but your point is quite right - we have not seen the vision, the grand plan that will tell us if all the possibles we have in mind can be put in place.

Despite the shockingly bad (in terms of information content) interview with Scooter Braun's people on the ripple drop - it seems inconceivable that coil will not be working with them to make music (as well as video and blog type material) available somehow. I'm encouraged to read in the blog article of this thread that different payment stream amounts will be enabled. I will gladly pay more for video and music and books than simple blogs and some reasonable amount for the news and other informed reading material. I very much hope that this comes to pass with a single subscription - like coil - even if it turns out to be a different provider and not a flat once per month payment, but one based on usage with nice info to tell you how much you've used each day/week/month etc, much like your data roaming tariffs etc.

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, rootvegetable said:

what does coil need with a billion xrp? there are countless startups that succeed with far less funding. ripple didn't even receive that much funding. is coil really that game changing? I actually don't believe that internet content monetization could possibly be the end game for coil with that level of funding. 

coil has a few thousand subscribers (may not be true, please fact check the correct number) - so anyone uploading their latest music video and hoping to earn an income from it will be sorely disappointed. But if coil can (for example) incentivise uploaders by increasing their revenue to make it worth their while - then more people will do it. If the big name music icons upload their latest songs to a WM enabled site and only subscribers can see them - then people might start subscribing. Getting the system up and running is the tricky part. $250million worth of giveaways would go quite a long way towards onboarding some people. Pure speculation on my part, but it is one thing they could do with some of it.

I see obstacles as

#1 getting big names to adopt WM and earn enough to make it worth their while (hence incentivisation)

#2 stopping the pirate versions that are free on youtube/other from preventing people from subscribing. If I can get it for nothing on youtube, then why subscribe to coil-braun-whatever WM site to pay for it. (Partnership with youtube would be the obvious answer - but that sounds hard)

#3 ....

EDIT: partnership with youtube, netflix, disney, washington post, etc etc - these would all be game changing as your one subscription would truly cross boundaries.

Edited by jbjnr

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10 minutes ago, rootvegetable said:

I actually don't believe that internet content monetization could possibly be the end game for coil with that level of funding. 

To @ADingoAteMyXRP's point - I am curious about the big picture vision, too, as what we've seen of the content monetization doesn't appear that impressive. I only have one internet subscription to manage.   My pet theory is that coil becomes a way for cable/telcom/ tv channel providers to offer channels à la carte finally; a partnership w/ Disney and their acquired streaming services as the flash point.  Could be excellent, but the strategy is still opaque to me. 

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Posted (edited)

I believe Ripple seeded 1 billion because coil is going to need it for future partnerships, perhaps theyre already in talks with a big player like youtube and so paying someone like youtube $100 mill for a partnership would be well worth it in the end, xrp value skyrockets and ripple recoups the loss easily. win/win

Edited by ripplenet

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Hodor said:

along with some factoids only available for Coil subscribers!  

@Hodor

Not very nice to post stuff like that. If Coil strategy is this way, they loose. Big time. MHO it is.
Apple like.

Edited by zenkert

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Coil’s business case doesn’t really appeal to me but I’m the same guy who could have looked at Netflix’s business case and say it doesn’t appeal to me when I’ve got a Blockbuster just down the street from me. I know this because the above analogy is based on actual history for me. Today I have Netflix and a slab of empty concrete sits where Blockbuster used to. 

Just because I don’t initially see or appreciate the value of something doesn’t mean others don’t. I think it’s more important to learn what’s valuable for the most influential generation of a time and follow those early adopters. If they like it then I like it and will invest in it. I think that’s what we have with the leadership at coil.

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