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1 minute ago, Julian_Williams said:

and are putting pressure on to understand Ripple that they have a responsibility to create a community around the XRPL that supports validators

Please don't think that my associations enable me to fix problems. It's more likely that I'll have to shut up soon. 

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SB Projects:http://scooterbraun.com/ date: MAY 14, 2018 ,https://ripple.com/insights/welcome-to-xpring/ Did it use XRP now?   Omni: https://omni.co date: MAY 14, 2018 ,https

I wouldn't mind testing some of these claims. No they can't. Not unless they want another series of class actions haunting them forever. That would be tantamount to fraud so good luck proving t

To weigh in on my end (alot of good discussion since I posted!), I was the one to leave my full time job two and a half years ago (early 2018) to pursue Dev Null Productions full time. I'm a firm beli

8 minutes ago, Julian_Williams said:

I like your attitude, but I personally  would never do what you have done, especially out laying that much money. 

Running a validator is only one way to get involved. I posted a tweet the other day to help somebody out who was looking for people who might be interested in collaborating on a web monetization project. I was blown away at how many interested people replied. My part is done. I'm not following his progress or anything, but with over 200 people actively wanting to work on a project, they (along with anybody here) can get together themselves. No reason to wait to be selected. The more people coming together to discuss ideas, the more innovative and diverse those ideas will be. Crypto's greatest use case has yet to be discovered, IMO.

 

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24 minutes ago, TiffanyHayden said:

I think it's time to consider that what we expected to happen -non-Ripple affiliated companies building on the ledger and therefore becoming XRPL stakeholders, isn't going to happen. It's been 7 years. And I realized recently after talking to an exchange owner that exchanges are never going to be XRPL stakeholders. And I didn't realize until then, but in my mind, they were the a last resort who I thought was a sure thing. I was wrong. And now I can't think of any realistic reasons for anybody to build on the XRPL, unless they are affiliated with Ripple, which makes them Ripple stakeholders, not XRPL stakeholders. If Ripple & friends are the only ones who are able to make money from the XRPL, does it make sense for anybody else to be supplying infrastructure and running validators on the network? It seems like it's time to reconsider what we're doing and why.

Did you watch that flywheel movie?  For me it is key to understanding the Ripple philosophy.

I am not a techie, I do not even own a mobile, and never wore a watch.  My philosophy is to drift through life taking fuzzy snap shots at understanding what is going on and understanding how I fit in to the scheme of things that are happening around me.  So my answer to your question is fuzzy and may lack understanding of the detail of the systems you have taken a deep dive into.

Crypto Eri is really interesting today.  She has this interview with DS where he mentions that he is not allowed to say Ripplenet has become the "Tinder for banks".  It is a really insightful remark, and goes to heart of why this problem you are interested in will be sorted out.    XRP, the XRPL, Banks, Bitcoin maxis and everybody in this space has to integrate with each other to survive in this new blockchain world, because blockchain is such an effective gamechanger for improving efficiency at every level; social mobility within the finance industry, speed, security, serving the public and each other more directly.. the list is endless. Ignoring the birth of the IoV is like ignoring the  birth of the  WWW.   XRP/Ripple/XRPL are simply too important/elegant/important/ too much to offer and too embedded in the collective psychology to be ignored and allowed to whither.  This is why the issues you are identifying will be addressed.   You are cog in that process.

Edited by Julian_Williams
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7 minutes ago, TiffanyHayden said:

Running a validator is only one way to get involved. I posted a tweet the other day to help somebody out who was looking for people who might be interested in collaborating on a web monetization project. I was blown away at how many interested people replied. My part is done. I'm not following his progress or anything, but with over 200 people actively wanting to work on a project, they (along with anybody here) can get together themselves. No reason to wait to be selected. The more people coming together to discuss ideas, the more innovative and diverse those ideas will be. Crypto's greatest use case has yet to be discovered, IMO.

 

That is intuitive.:clapping:

Edited by Julian_Williams
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1 hour ago, TiffanyHayden said:

does it make sense for anybody else to be supplying infrastructure and running validators on the network? 

Apart from idealistic motives? No, it doesn´t. Ripple and those with incentives should, and probably will if needed. Still probably years too early to tell, but also exchanges that will profit from ODL (e.g. preferred partners) will have such an incentive (this can even be part of the deal with RL). See Bitso validator as a current example.

1 hour ago, TiffanyHayden said:

 And now I can't think of any realistic reasons for anybody to build on the XRPL, unless they are affiliated with Ripple, which makes them Ripple stakeholders, not XRPL stakeholders.

If Ripple succeeds in their plans, and with that creates sufficient liquidity for XRPL to become the go-to ledger for settlement, others will no doubt tap into it.

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21 hours ago, yxxyun said:

Nice, implementation for the "NegativeUNL" is apparently ready and will be included in v1.6.0 (but not amendment enabled yet)

Quote

The Negative UNL is a protocol change to improve the network’s reliability in the face of failed validators without sacrificing network safety. The Negative UNL protocol uses the existing consensus algorithm for the network to agree on a list of validators that are believed to be unreliable at the moment and lists the validators on the ledgers. If a validator V is on that list, it would still participate in consensus in precisely the same way. But nodes with V in their UNL adjust the quorum and V’s validation message is not counted when verifying if a ledger is fully validated. When V becomes reliable, nodes use the consensus algorithm to vote it off the list.

This feature adds a new pseudo-transaction type and a Negative UNL component to the ledger data structure. Any tools or systems that rely on the format of this data will have to be updated.

This feature will need an amendment to activate.

 

Edited by jn_r
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7 hours ago, Pablo said:

No they can't. Not unless they want another series of class actions haunting them forever. That would be tantamount to fraud so good luck proving that.

XRapid started off offering Bitcoin. Please post a link where Ripple has promised their shareholders, the only group they have a fiduciary responsibility to, that they will ONLY use XRP and vow to never use anpther open source crypto again.

Thanks.

7 hours ago, Pablo said:

Not sure how you could say this - it's provably untrue

Please post a link that proves it. Thanks. 

7 hours ago, Pablo said:

Oh, and you should probably read the correspondence and contracts that came out of the R3 litigation

I've had the luxury of dealing with R3 people in person. Even for middle of the night CRAZY time meltdowns. R3 is awful. They've always disliked Ripple and now they laugh at XRP supporters who think they suddenly care about XRP because they sued Ripple and won (via a settlement). We don't know much they received, but it wasn't a ton because they were struggling financially and couldn't cover the taxes over a certain amount. And, because they were struggling financially, I think it's safe to assume they sold most of what they received. 

7 hours ago, Pablo said:

Countless public statements have been made about the value of XRP to the overall business strategy of Ripple

Of course. Selling XRP funds their business. XRP benefits Ripple, absolutely.  Why do you think this has anything to do with you?

8 hours ago, Pablo said:

I just did. You're welcome.

No, you didn't. You didn't provide any screenshots from a software application utilizing ODL. You complained about a bunch of other things like Ethereum, but that has no bearing on what may or may not exist for ODL. You refuse to accept any personal responsibility to find out. 

8 hours ago, Pablo said:

If there is a certain reticence, that's probably because Ripple

...doesn't work for you or owe you anything. 

8 hours ago, Pablo said:

I could think of a myriad other reasons why

Again, unwilling to find out the facts. 

8 hours ago, Pablo said:

Did you ever get an explanation?

No. 

8 hours ago, Pablo said:

And if not, do you know why that might be?

I have a few guesses but they aren't flattering and it would be unfair to speak them into existence when I'm not even sure. 

8 hours ago, Pablo said:

I'm stunned that you think NTT's validator is "subpar

I never commented on that validator. I complained about validators being added to the dUN: without meeting any minimum standards, like working on the weekends, or being the least bit competent, or being somebody people know if you're part of the handful who can't t be bothered to include a working website. 

 

8 hours ago, Pablo said:

- high on speculation, low on evidence or fact. "Maybe even uses it", "it looks like.." "Are you certain that..." "Hell, Ripple could even..."

Ripple is free to do whatever it wants and it doesn't even owe you an explanation. If you believe a commitment has been made, post it. Otherwise stop obsessing over what Ripple does. You keep acting like you think whatever Ripple does is going to benefit you in some way rather than doing anything for yourself. 

 

9 hours ago, Pablo said:

You say that, but I'm far from convinced.

Prove it. :)

I shutdown my XRPL validator and have been redirecting my time and effort into participating in a non-exclusionary network. My node on the Stellar network, ARMAJEDDON, has been kicking ass.  

 

I even ordered t-shirts today. :spinlol:

 

 

7 hours ago, xrphilosophy said:

I don't see how any of these queries regarding Ripple's business practices (like them or not), at this stage, makes one tiny bit of difference. 

The mold has been cast with Ripple.  Period.  They are not going back in time. 

Why do you think Ripple's business plans have anything to do with you? 

7 hours ago, xrphilosophy said:

You can like it, or leave it.

You literally weren't invited. 

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On 7/28/2020 at 9:44 PM, TiffanyHayden said:

....I assumed shitty nodes w. An attorney in this space told me that excluding me "is the kind of centralized management and control that implicates the securities laws." Why would Ripple do that???

quotev GIF

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It's going to be a tough discussion if you present 20% facts (mostly tweets) and 80% opinion, and when someone else gives his opinion with some reasonable arguments they suddenly have to present legal documents and signed contracts to you to prove it...

  • Your validator was not given dUNL status, so everything else is subpar (yeah, the network almost halted... proposals to prevent that are being released in V1.6.0 apparantly. Stellar fully stopped for over an hour in 2019, they had to fix that to. There will be bumps on the road for all)
  • Ripple has repeated over and over XRP is their centerpiece in the puzzle, but that is not enough because who trusts Ripple management? 
  • Binance is no ODL partner, there must be some sort of conspiracy against other exchanges. Or this ODL thingy is just getting started and they will get their shot when they have their own issues sorted out?
  • Exchanges will never host validators because there's no incentive (two exchanges host a dUNL validator... who knows why they do), but you can not conclude others won't if this thing ever grows

You tend to look at everything from a technical perspective as you spend years championing the ledger and learned things I can probably not start to comprehend. Conclusion is there are flaws indeed. Technical however is a very important but small part of the whole picture. Legal, strategic, communication, customers, userbase, price/liquidity etc are all part of the equation towards an ecosystem also. We can simply not know why certain choices are made, but most choices must have had logical reasoning behind it.

Your argument for that is probably that you spoke to a lot of people at Ripple, but that does not mean you know it all. That only means you combined everything you experienced together and came up with your version of the truth. The truth of it all is unfortunately available for a handfull of people. Speculation on many of these points are all we have, on both sides of the opinion. If it was all fact and truth, investing (or not) in this space would be easy.

When I read your posts I can't help but conclude you think Ripple is a fraud and a stream of lies. Do you think Ripple (or its owners) are a fraud?

And when the answer is yes. Is Stellar the 'good guy' then as they seem to have it all worked out correctly, at least on technical levels?

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1 hour ago, Caracappa said:

When I read your posts I can't help but conclude you think Ripple is a fraud and a stream of lies. Do you think Ripple (or its owners) are a fraud?

I am sorry Caracappa for hijacking your reaction towards @TiffanyHayden but would like to present my point of view, especially the probable confusion around the person TH.

What the intentions are, actions (recent and in the past) and looking closely to her posts, I believe things can be deceiving in a topic like this. I would recommend to keep an open mind and look for the silver lining. 
She is an influencer and an important one. Don't archive her character with visions (well intended or not) please. I like that character for the XRP community and am grateful. Not always understand her but will catch up hopefully one day. And this discussion at its own got great value (more than one level).

[My humble opinion. no offence intended and correct me if I am wrong Tiffany, I love to learn more]

Edited by Trisky
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4 minutes ago, Trisky said:

I am sorry Caracappa for hijacking your reaction towards @TiffanyHayden but would like to present my point of view, especially the probable confusion around the person TH.

What the intentions are, actions (recent and in the past) and looking closely to her posts, I believe things can be deceiving in a topic like this. I would recommend to keep an open mind and look for the silver lining. 
She is an influencer and an important one. Don't archive her character with visions (well intended or not) please. I like that character for the XRP community and am grateful. Not always understand her but will catch up hopefully one day. And this discussion at its own got great value (more than one level).

[My humble opinion. no offence intended and correct me if I am wrong Tiffany, I love to learn more]

Perhaps it's a language barrier (not native English) or a sender/receiver issue.

But when saying Ripple has no commitment towards the XRPL (even though proposing newer versions on a regular basis) is somewhat discrediting to Davids work on it.

And Ripple mentioning for years that XRP is vital to the ecosystem, but TH saying they don't care, might as wel use BTC, because there are no contracts obligating them to use it insinuates that they do not care about XRP besides their own financial gains.

I'm not sure about the legal implications as we hope it is not a security, but selling OTC to big investors and for years giving them the idea Ripple is trying to build something that might give it value as a utility token, but they actually don't care. It would be like selling concert tickets to a concert you say you are organising but have no intent to actually do so.

That would be somewhat of a fraud in my country...

I'll trust she is fighting the good fight then on technical level, but I see too many Stellar references to believe she's really here for XRPL.

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