xrapid moving xrp on exchanges

[nicktemple 980]

Someone here might be able to answer this question I have.

When xrapid converts a currency to xrp at a digital asset exchange ( e.g. bitstamp ) then sends it to another exchange, does the exchange use the open trade markets, that us the general public trade on.

or does it bypass the open trade markets, and use the exchanges own holdings of xrp, therefore not affecting the price on the trading exchanges.

Just wondering cause if it doesn't move on the open markets, then the only way I can see xrapid effecting the trade price of xrp, is by the amount burnt off in the movement of it.

Might be a long shot but if @JoelKatz could weigh in on this, would be great.

 

[Guest]

It moves via the open order books.  Volume on public exchanges is what will push price if it happens in sufficient volume.

The burning of XRP is not going to have any price effect for decades.  And if it ever does have an effect it will only be because there is yuuuuge volumes moving through the ledger.

[nicktemple 980]

ok thanks @Tinyaccount was thinking that, but just can't find any doc's on ripples site on them specifying that, to confirm.

[hallwaymonitor 1,988]

Yesterday I had this "good" and "original" idea how to make DIY of xRapid:

1. Bank A in Europe (EUR account) -> Bitstamp (EUR account)

2. Bitstamp (EUR account) buy XRP / sell EUR

3. Bitstamp (XRP account) -> XRPL -> Bitso (XRP account)

4. Bitso (XRP account) sell XRP / buy MXN

5. Bitso (MXN account) -> Bank B in Mexico (MXN account)

6. Bank B in Mexico (MXN account) -> Bank C in Mexico (MXN account)

Local Mexican rails in steps 5 and 6 will take for some time settle. Of course, during weekends and banking holidays nothing happens. However, according to David Schwartz (in the CKJ's Consensus video) this "last mile" problem is also the biggest challenge of xRapid for now.

Of course alternatively you could just use the ol' SWIFT and send directly from Bank A in Europe (EUR account) to Bank C in Mexico (MXN account) and take a beating with the spread (not always) during the 3-5 days it will probably take to settle.

Edited July 6, 2019 by hallwaymonitor

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, hallwaymonitor said:

Local Mexican rails in steps 5 and 6 will take at least a day each.

I don’t know for sure but I believe I’ve read David or others saying that actually the Mexican rails are real-time.  Many countries are moving towards that.  Australia has the NewPayments system and it’s really nice to use when the institutions involved are onboard.  All of Oz will be by next year I understand.  Many, if not most, already are.

[jcdenton 519]

45 minutes ago, nicktemple said:

ok thanks @Tinyaccount was thinking that, but just can't find any doc's on ripples site on them specifying that, to confirm.

I'm not aware of any, but it makes logical sense that they trade on the public order books even if the exchange is injecting liquidity themselves, because (open market liquidity + exchange's extra liquidity) is always going to offer a narrower spread than (only exchange's liquidity). 

[DreXRP 4,099]

1 hour ago, nicktemple said:

 

Just wondering cause if it doesn't move on the open markets, then the only way I can see xrapid effecting the trade price of xrp, is by the amount burnt off in the movement of it.

If you are intetessted, the read Bobs post about upwards price pressure.

 

 

And this one

 

[hallwaymonitor 1,988]

1 hour ago, Tinyaccount said:

I don’t know for sure but I believe I’ve read David or others saying that actually the Mexican rails are real-time.  Many countries are moving towards that.  Australia has the NewPayments system and it’s really nice to use when the institutions involved are onboard.  All of Oz will be by next year I understand.  Many, if not most, already are.

I don't know for sure either and hence I edited my previous guesstimate. If the Mexican rails would be real-time today then it means that the steps 2-> 6 in my example could be done easily intraday without xRapid. Why wouldn't companies in the Eurozone start paying to their Mexican suppliers this way already? What I'm missing here?

[yxxyun 1,147]

2 hours ago, hallwaymonitor said:

Yesterday I had this "good" and "original" idea how to make DIY of xRapid:

1. Bank A in Europe (EUR account) -> Bitstamp (EUR account)

2. Bitstamp (EUR account) buy XRP / sell EUR

3. Bitstamp (XRP account) -> XRPL -> Bitso (XRP account)

4. Bitso (XRP account) sell XRP / buy MXN

5. Bitso (MXN account) -> Bank B in Mexico (MXN account)

6. Bank B in Mexico (MXN account) -> Bank C in Mexico (MXN account)

Local Mexican rails in steps 5 and 6 will take at least a day each. Of course, during weekends and banking holidays nothing happens. However, according to David Schwartz (in the CKJ's Consensus video) this "last mile" problem is also the biggest challenge of xRapid for now.

Of course alternatively you could just use the ol' SWIFT and send directly from Bank A in Europe (EUR account) to Bank C in Mexico (MXN account) and take a beating with the spread (not always) during the 3-5 days it will probably take to settle.

deposit EUR to bitstamp need 1~3 day

https://www.bitstamp.net/faq/what-is-sepa-transfer/

[hallwaymonitor 1,988]

30 minutes ago, yxxyun said:

deposit EUR to bitstamp need 1~3 day

https://www.bitstamp.net/faq/what-is-sepa-transfer/

Yup. My bank in Eurozone takes usually just one 1 business day when I send EUR to my Bitstamp account. Thanks to SEPA this transfer does not cost me anything.

Just to clarify that the DIY of xRapid model in above assumes pre-funded EUR in your Bitstamp account (step 1). The remaining steps 2-6 can be done without pre-funding as is the case with the real xRapid API by Ripple.

[KarmaCoverage 4,534]

8 hours ago, nicktemple said:

or does it bypass the open trade markets, and use the exchanges own holdings of xrp

This could be done in a number of ways... but yes, I think xRapid is intended to use the "public liquidity" from the various participating exchange's orderbooks & users. 

They could also use OTC liquidity. A 3rd option would be some sort of borrowing of XRP (Ripple subsidies for Market Makers) & or fiat, or some other kind of derivative. 

This is where it can becomes very important to have an official index for the FX price. I forget who it was but I think an index was announced in the last month or so.

If the banks hold XRP directly on XRPL, and there is an index to price the FX, then you could just go direct Bank A > XRPL > Bank B

[jcdenton 519]

22 minutes ago, KarmaCoverage said:

This is where it can becomes very important to have an official index for the FX price. I forget who it was but I think an index was announced in the last month or so.

Here's a good index I use, not official though. https://tradeblock.com/markets/indices/xrx

[Malloy 1,071]

6 minutes ago, jcdenton said:

Here's a good index I use, not official though. https://tradeblock.com/markets/indices/xrx

interesting...too bad the choice of the exchanges they use is limited and doesn't included the biggest volume ones...if they correct this I'd have this page open 24/7

[jcdenton 519]

22 minutes ago, Malloy said:

interesting...too bad the choice of the exchanges they use is limited and doesn't included the biggest volume ones...if they correct this I'd have this page open 24/7

They take the biggest volume real USD exchanges and balance with a small BTC and Tether component. It's not right for every use case, but for a "legit" index I like the mix a lot. 

[Scout 285]

On 7/6/2019 at 1:48 AM, hallwaymonitor said:

Yesterday I had this "good" and "original" idea how to make DIY of xRapid:

1. Bank A in Europe (EUR account) -> Bitstamp (EUR account)

2. Bitstamp (EUR account) buy XRP / sell EUR

3. Bitstamp (XRP account) -> XRPL -> Bitso (XRP account)

4. Bitso (XRP account) sell XRP / buy MXN

5. Bitso (MXN account) -> Bank B in Mexico (MXN account)

6. Bank B in Mexico (MXN account) -> Bank C in Mexico (MXN account)

Local Mexican rails in steps 5 and 6 will take for some time settle. Of course, during weekends and banking holidays nothing happens. However, according to David Schwartz (in the CKJ's Consensus video) this "last mile" problem is also the biggest challenge of xRapid for now.

Of course alternatively you could just use the ol' SWIFT and send directly from Bank A in Europe (EUR account) to Bank C in Mexico (MXN account) and take a beating with the spread (not always) during the 3-5 days it will probably take to settle.

Actually, I recall David Swartz talking about XRapid a while back and referencing how the XRP system works and can settle really fast amongst itself and other digital assets. But when transactions need to be delivered to a Bank account in FIAT it falls short because XRP needs to be converted into FIAT at the Exchange doing the settlement where it can be wire transferred to a Bank and the entire process comes to a crawl.

This is probably why all banks will slowly adopt XRP or their own digital token, so the process doesn't have to be slowed down by the FIAT payment rails but XRP can bridge to the Banks digital token using ILP and the Bank can perform an in house conversion directly to FIAT.  That would be the time settlements could be instantaneous.

So in order for XRP to truely be successful we need the entire industry to mature and adopt their own digital assets or trust an existing asset in house to make direct conversions from digital to physical cash. It kind of makes me wonder if this is the function that Swift is setting out to achieve with GPI so all banks can trust GPI and XRP can be the bridge for cross border transactions.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Scout