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9 minutes ago, cmbartley said:

Is there a good article about the tokenomics of LBA? What are the drivers of price/demand other than encouraging lenders and lenders to hold some to improve lending rates/returns? 

Great question.  Without that information - which is apparently hard to find (I glanced, when LBA came out, and found nada) - then I don't know what to call what they're doing.

I can think of some analogies, but I bet they wouldn't like the ones that come to mind.  The same holds true for most of these "pay us to custody with us and we'll pay you x%."

The fact that it's not a straight-up "payment" and is instead of the form "buy our token, then we'll pay you x%" is an abstraction the purpose of which has never been very clear.

I mean... If you think of it just as a payment, and not a token purchase, and set the value of the token to 0, and write it off mentally as an upfront cost, then you're paying to get future higher rates of return, and then giving them, in exchange for your payment, the privilege of holding your crypto - what do they do with it / what risk do you then assume?

I have no idea - except that the only guarantee in there is uncertainy and risk - and so I cannot touch it.  Maybe that means I'll miss out.  That's okay.  I'll live.  And so will they...

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Thank you all, this is a very interesting thread and I've started digging into LBA. What does this thread think about Bitrue given it's similarities to LBA but with more consistent (for now) interest rate payouts, depending on your % of BTR holdings relative to your total holdings. As mentioned in this thread, Binance has now launched their interest staking program, which is similar to Bitrue and LBA. Seems like this service to clients is starting to become popular so hoping to find the right platform to invest in that will be able to sustain over the long term. 

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I agree @NightJanitor it is difficult to understand what benefit the LBA token holds to Cred given you can lend without it, but lending with it provides much higher rates of return. 

Maybe it's due to some underlying mechanic of regulation around lending services which need to collateralize the value partially against a 3rd party.  In other words...if people purchase and stake LBA it inherently proves LBA is an asset with value and the millions of LBA that Cred sits on then appear to be fungible assets they hold.  This in turn allows Cred to borrow against their LBA holdings and the initial lenders are paid back through a much larger investment made on behalf of Cred.  I'm not sure if any of what I'm saying makes sense, but there has to be some kind of angle for Cred to create value from the LBA they hold.  Either they can sell it (a-la XRP) and bring value through dollars or they can somehow collateralize it bring value through borrowed dollars.

I mean 10% APR doesn't just come out of thin air.  Whatever they are doing is certainly higher risk.  They do claim they never use borrowed assets to short, but other than that it's kind of a mystery right now.  I find a little comfort in Arrington Capital giving some approval to their operation, but I wouldn't go and roll all my assets into them without knowing a lot more about how the whole system they've built really works.  This goes for really any of these lending services with higher single digit / double digit APR interest payments involving crypto.

Edited by Zedy44
clarity

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I highly recommend NOT using CRED  (@CredEarn). I put a small amount into one of their contracts in order to see how it works 6 months and they've made it impossible to get my crypto back. There's no option to allow the contract to expire (you're auto re-enrolled) and they have not responded to inquires via chat or email. Also their legal email address does not work (legal@mycred.io). 

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Sorry replied to @alexdupre after reading the response too quickly.  As Alex said new contracts start at 6 months and auto-enroll switches them to 3 after the initial contract is completed and the user opt-in's for auto enrollment.

Edited by Zedy44
mistakenly replied too quickly

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22 hours ago, alexdupre said:

I guess you forgot to disable the auto re-enroll feature? https://intercom.help/cred/en/articles/2999700-how-do-i-auto-enroll-in-credearn

Your funds will be locked for other 3 months. Did they change the rate and the value?

I didn't forget. I only got one email on the 7th saying I had to opt out by the 9th. There are no other opt out notification emails in my email box. I logged in on the evening of the 8th and there was no option to opt out. They contacted me via twitter say they will manually opt me out. I'll try to remember to update here if that happens.

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On 9/10/2019 at 1:49 PM, cmbartley said:

I highly recommend NOT using CRED  (@CredEarn). I put a small amount into one of their contracts in order to see how it works 6 months and they've made it impossible to get my crypto back.

Why didn't you toggle the auto enrol option off so your funds were returned? Was that really impossible?

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On 9/3/2019 at 4:27 PM, cmbartley said:

I looked into Tezos after the Brazilian bank announcement but haven't had a chance to look more closely. Does the staking pay out in Tezos or some other asset?

In Tezos (XTZ), yes. 

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11 hours ago, Mitty said:

Why didn't you toggle the auto enrol option off so your funds were returned? Was that really impossible?

I never saw one. I logged in a few times over the past couple months and there was no way to turn it off. Got busy and then went to turn it off as the email indicated BEFORE the deadline and there was no option to turn off autoenroll. Mot sure how this is my error.

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It's not in the most obvious spot, but it has always been there. Sounds like you just didn't know what you were looking for and never asked for assistance. Creds chat support is right there one click and one sentence typed would of had you sorted. Not sure how it's not your error?

I think "I highly recommend NOT using CRED" is an overreaction considering you simply couldn't find the option and never followed up with support. 

I am surprised that they didn't allow you to release your funds after it was auto enrolled. What was their reason for not releasing your funds when you contacted them to cancel your next 3 month lending and get your crypto back?

 

current price:$0.01574

current CS:581,607,302

Edited by Mitty

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10 hours ago, Mitty said:

It's not in the most obvious spot, but it has always been there. Sounds like you just didn't know what you were looking for and never asked for assistance. Creds chat support is right there one click and one sentence typed would of had you sorted. Not sure how it's not your error?

I think "I highly recommend NOT using CRED" is an overreaction considering you simply couldn't find the option and never followed up with support. 

I am surprised that they didn't allow you to release your funds after it was auto enrolled. What was their reason for not releasing your funds when you contacted them to cancel your next 3 month lending and get your crypto back?

 

current price:$0.01574

current CS:581,607,302

You make a lot of assumptions. It was a 6 mo contract, this was the first opportunity to close it. I got one email notifying me about an opportunity to close my contract 2 days before the deadline. That's it, only one. And even then there was no option to close it after I logged in on the 8th. I did contact their chat, no response, ever. I emailed, no response. I still haven't gotten an email response from support, only because they DMed me on twitter. Their legal email address is nonfunctional. Their legal department phone number has a vmail greeting that's barely set up. No call back.

I think those are sufficient reasons to recommend not using them until further notice. I didn't say they stole my funds, I recommended not using them. My funds have now been returned to me but it's still not clear what happened. I recommended that they actually attach a time zone to their contract expiration emails. There's no adjudicating time zone in their terms and conditions. I gave them a few suggestions, like a) respond to emails b) respond to the chat feature and c) don't put a a legal contact email on your website if it doesn't work.

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"It was a 6 mo contract, this was the first opportunity to close it." 

That is blatantly false. You have the ability at any time in the first 5 months to turn off the auto re-enroll.  (Although i have opted out within a week of the program coming to an end without issue, 5 months is just the stated time in their FAQ but doesn't seem to be enforced currently.)

"And even then there was no option to close it after I logged in"

Do you even know where to turn off the auto re-enroll now?

 

"I did contact their chat, no response, ever. I emailed, no response. I still haven't gotten an email response from support, only because they DMed me on twitter. Their legal email address is nonfunctional. Their legal department phone number has a vmail greeting that's barely set up. No call back."

This is average at best. Hopefully they take note of your feedback. I myself have always had timely responses on the multiple occasions that i have contacted them. 

 

"and they've made it impossible to get my crypto back" -> My funds have now been returned to me.

Did you receive any penalties for cancelling your lending during the lending window? Did you receive the interest that you had earned over the last 2 weeks?

 

All the best

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mitty said:

Did you receive any penalties for cancelling your lending during the lending window? Did you receive the interest that you had earned over the last 2 weeks?

They paid my interest interest in full and twice my principal. They accidentally sent me double my deposit. That's effectively a 210% interest rate for 6 months. I've DM'ed them and contacted support to return the excess but... no response. Bang up job they're doing over there.

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