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European Central Bank integrates RippleNet on 22-11-2021

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49 minutes ago, Paradox said:

I'm not sure I follow what you are saying.  Can you elaborate?

Are you saying the faster money moves the more disruption will occur in the economy?   If this is the case then I agree, as a higher velocity of money allows for greater economic productivity, all else equal.

Yes I am thinking that too.  The Eurozone is already suffering from this problem, which is why I voted for a soft Brexit (UK kept out of the Eurozone).  IMO the EU needs a single tax system that transfers the money to the slow spots (politically unacceptable, but it is the only weapon they have given the problem of inflexibility of currency divergence in a single currency zone)).  I am just wondering out loud if XRP, with this feature of instantly adjusting rates of exchange, could somehow be parachuted into the system to alleviate the problem which is only going to get larger as the velocity of money speeds up (my intuition was asking is there something here that could employed to redistribute money around the Eurozone?  probably not, but it was worth the question).

Edited by Julian_Williams

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1 minute ago, Julian_Williams said:

Yes I am thinking that too.  The Eurozone is already suffering from this problem, which is why I voted for a soft Brexit.  IMO the EU needs a single tax system that transfers the money to the slow spots (politically unacceptable, but it is the only weapon they have given the inflexibility of currency divergence in a single currency zone)).  I am just wondering out loud if XRP, with this feature of instantly adjusting rates of exchange, could somehow be parachuted into the system to alleviate the problem which is only going to get largest as the velocity of money speeds up (my intuition was asking is there something here that could employed to redistribute money around the Eurozone, probably not, but it worth the question).

That is an interesting idea.  If the EU leaders chose to invest in the payment infrastructure of the Eurozone countries that need it most, I think it would definitely help.

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55 minutes ago, ADingoAteMyXRP said:

The difference is that here, both nostro and vostro are held in Euros, and they're held at central banks rather than sender/recipient bank. So central banks are acting as the correspondents. Make sense?

Yeah, which is the fastest and most efficient way of doing EUR/EUR payments. You basically cannot optimize that if not with a better software infrastructure.

It takes less than 10 seconds and the cost is 0.002€. Do you think going via XRP can be anyhow better in terms of time and costs? No way.

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Been a while since we've had such a hardy discussion like this!!! Reading through all of this, I'm like @Paradox has some good points. Welp, nope, @ADingoAteMyXRP gave a good rebuttal to his theory. Then again, I liked what @KarmaCoverage and @Dutch_ins said about the Euro something or another!! LOL..... 

Edited by King34Maine

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15 minutes ago, King34Maine said:

Been a while since we've had such a hardy discussion like this!!! Reading through all of this, I'm like @Paradox has some good points. Welp, nope, @ADingoAteMyXRP gave a good rebuttal to his theory. Then again, I liked what @KarmaCoverage and @Dutch_ins said about the Euro something or another!! LOL..... 

It is a qualitative discussion. Thanks folks!

Still the ECB papers didn't say XRP 🤫🤐

Screenshot_20190528-011022_Twitter.jpg

We see what we want to see?

Edited by Dutch_ins

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48 minutes ago, tulo said:

Yeah, which is the fastest and most efficient way of doing EUR/EUR payments. You basically cannot optimize that if not with a better software infrastructure.

It takes less than 10 seconds and the cost is 0.002€. Do you think going via XRP can be anyhow better in terms of time and costs? No way.

Pre-funded account is still a pre-funded account, even though it is called differently in case of a Central Bank. Regulatory Capital requirement indirectly covers the cost of those payments (and not only those payments) and in the end each payment “costs” more than 0.002€. Most probably things will change dramatically when wholesale CDBC is introduced. My guess, CDBC will be much more efficient than XRP as long as banks interact within the reach of the same Central Bank.

I agree with @tulo that EUR / EUR payment won’t need XRP (especially if CBDC is introduced). I agree with @ADingoAteMyXRP that we might see a period (if regulators don’t move quickly enough) when XRP is slightly more efficient than keeping your funds at ECB (but it won’t matter as long as Capital requirement exist). What truly matters for this discussion, as @Dutch_ins rightly pointed out, there is more than one financial regulator in Europe, i.e. XRP still might make sense within Europe.

Edited by Lamberth

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2 minutes ago, Lamberth said:

and in the end each payment “costs” more than 0.002€. 

Those prices and speed are only between tips-enabled institutions I believe. Tips is far from 'adopted' yet. If I want to transfer between two European banks it still takes some time, and the (business account) transfer costs are still €0,09. (Rabobank: https://www.rabobank.nl/images/tarieven-zakelijk-betalingsverkeer-rabobank-english_29996858.pdf)

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5 minutes ago, Dutch_ins said:

Those prices and speed are only between tips-enabled institutions I believe. Tips is far from 'adopted' yet. If I want to transfer between two European banks it still takes some time, and the (business account) transfer costs are still €0,09. (Rabobank: https://www.rabobank.nl/images/tarieven-zakelijk-betalingsverkeer-rabobank-english_29996858.pdf)

0.09€ is a cost for Rabobank customers I believe, not a cost of transfer for Rabobank. Besides, both 0.09 and 0.002 are quite high if we talk about micro-payments but not high enough if we talk about typical bank transfers. My point was - cost of Capital held at CB is more important than cost per transaction. 

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Just now, Lamberth said:

0.09€ is a cost for Rabobank customers I believe, not a cost of transfer for Rabobank. Besides, both 0.09 and 0.002 are quite high if we talk about micro-payments but not high enough if we talk about typical bank transfers. My point was - cost of Capital held at CB is more important than cost per transaction. 

That is right, Agreed 😎

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All XRP aside, that's for another day, another year, maybe another generation. I've really no idea.

Ripple, the company, is legitimate. It's hard to argue otherwise when ECB says if you're using Ripple solutions, give us your paperwork. 

What excites me most about this is RippleNet, emphasis on the "Net". I found, "In 2012, TARGET2 had 999 direct participants, 3,386 indirect participants and 13,313 correspondents." Not much XRP will be used if there isn't a network for it to flow over. 

How one interprets this event is up to each of us. I'm satisfied with ECB's validation of Ripple and any network effects that may result. 

I choose not to throw the baby out with the bathwater just because there's no mention of XRP. The bath has been drawn, the water has been tested and I'm just waiting to see who jumps in. 

Great stuff! 

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10 hours ago, Paradox said:

Can you explain why XRP is needed for a EUR-EUR payment?   If I have EUR and must pay out in EUR,  why do I need XRP?   Banks do not need nostro/vostro accounts if they are transacting in their functional currency.   What you said makes no sense.    

Example:

Netherlands bank wants to pay 1000 EUR to German bank.   Netherlands bank does not need a nostro account with the German bank to make the payment in EUR.   Nor does it have to "source liquidity" via XRP, as it already possesses EUR.

As many have said before, the TIPS system is designed initially to only settle EUR-EUR transactions, but will be expanded to other currencies in the EU. Here, XRP will have a use case

Even within the Eurozone, pre-funding is necessary as many have explained before. Just because the settlement is in the same currency does't mean it is straightforward

Furthermore, one needs to look beyond the EU to see why this is an opportunity for banks. What if by 2022 the majority of banks in MEA and APAC are on RippleNet (In addition to SWIFT)? Why should the European banks choose to use the slower, more expensive option to send money to these regions?

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