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Work around to never updating Nano S


MegaNerd
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So we all should know by now concerning the critical update pertaining to the Nano S and Chrome. Reading online, there seems to be many people concerned about updating their Nano's in fear of 'losing' their XRP, being bricked, installing the update wrong, being hacked, etc etc

Is the work around to this as simple as never updating your Nano and, when youre ready to cash out years down the road, simply purchase a brand new Nano X from Ledger (which will automatically come with the most recent updates), and input your 24 -word passphrase into the new Nano X?

By doing so, youre essentially pretending you lost your Nano S by creating a clone of your Nano. You can then confirm on the ledger that your clone is operational and then physically destroy your original Nano.

Yes, you're paying $100+ to buy a new Nano, but what's $100 when you have thousands to millions of dollars in XRP safely stored on your new, cloned Nano X.

Thoughts?

 

Edited by MegaNerd
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6 minutes ago, xippix said:

Is there a new update? I have a nano s for 1.5 year now, never updated, is this needed? 

- are my coins safe?
- can i lost my coins with an update?

'Safe' is relative to a lot of variables (computer safety, updated browser, etc etc) and XRP arent actually stored on the Nano..

The new update is 1.5.5

https://www.ledger.fr/2019/01/16/ledger-releases-a-new-nano-s-firmware-update/

I bring up this topic because many people arent comfortable updating a device which may be worth millions of dollars of XRP in the future.

My workaround is to never update, and simply buy a new Nano when ready to cash out. Then simply clone your Nano by inputting your 24 word phrase and destroy your original.

Edited by MegaNerd
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It's a great question, and considering how cumbersome it is to update the Nano S firmware, I've done it a couple of times already - the solution OP provides is probably an easier one considering the problems which I have heard can occur when updating this device.  The Ledger Live system is not as facile either as the Ledger Wallet Ripple. 

Has the Ledger Live software in fact been rid of all of its bugs though?  May make me switch over to that thing possibly....

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6 minutes ago, xrphilosophy said:

It's a great question, and considering how cumbersome it is to update the Nano S firmware, I've done it a couple of times already - the solution OP provides is probably an easier one considering the problems which I have heard can occur when updating this device.  The Ledger Live system is not as facile either as the Ledger Wallet Ripple. 

Has the Ledger Live software in fact been rid of all of its bugs though?  May make me switch over to that thing possibly....

The Ledger system/software isnt perfect by any means. Im sure the Ledger team is currently aware of a security flaw which we will not be made aware of for several months. They will then present an update after the fact.

I know it is ridiculous to buy a new Nano, but it seems the easiest and safest way. Simply clone your nano to a new already updated nano and youre done. No updating, no button pressing, no worrying. 

Technically speaking, once you set up your nano with your 24 words and have your XRP on the explorer, you dont even need your Nano anymore. 

Edited by MegaNerd
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The problem with updating their firmware is that it can talk up to 5-10 times of doing it before it "takes". After I did that a couple of times over the last year I realized I wasn't too keen on updating it like that any longer. A clean update should be just that.  Dicey!

 

Edited by xrphilosophy
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28 minutes ago, xrphilosophy said:

The problem with updating their firmare is that it can talk up to 5-10 times of doing it before it "takes". After I did that a couple of times over the last year I realized I wasn't too keen on updating it like that any longer. A clean update should be just that.  Dicey!

 

Yes. What does that even mean when it takes several times to get it right? Ridiculous. 

Opinions welcome and correct me if im wrong but my opinion is the best way to do this is to buy a Nano, get your XRP 'on it', confirm your 24 word seed, confirm XRP are in the Explorer, and then destroy your Nano.

So many people have stated they are worried about how to properly store their nano. You dont have to store it. Just buy a new one and clone it.

Edited by MegaNerd
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4 minutes ago, xrphilosophy said:

Thankfully from a security point of view it is apparently (from all the sites I've read including Ledger's) not necessary to update to the latest Nano firmware. It seems to be for user experience. 

Im all for the Nano S but Ledger is a joke. They reduced storage of the S at just about the same time the X comes out. Coincidence? No way. Theyre pushing people to buy the X. And with the Bluetooth feature which theyre calling 'perfectly safe'.. its just laughable. You dont create the most secure device in the world and then start tacking on gizmos and doohickies. 

 

Here is Ledgers apology:

https://www.ledger.fr/2019/02/14/righting-our-1-5-5-nano-s-firmware-update/

Read this part:

Quote

When planning for this update we didn’t anticipate the impact it would have on Ledger Nano S capacity.

Youre telling me a company which can create a super secure device using insanely complex algorithms DIDNT REALIZE the impact it would have on storage???

It's a blatant lie. 

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1 hour ago, MegaNerd said:

I bring up this topic because many people arent comfortable updating a device which may be worth millions of dollars of XRP in the future.

 

36 minutes ago, MegaNerd said:

Opinions welcome and correct me if im wrong but my opinion is the best way to do this is to buy a Nano, get your XRP 'on it', confirm your 24 word seed, confirm XRP are in the Explorer, and then destroy your Nano.

I don't really see the point of wantonly destroying a $100 Nano, just in case you have a bit of trouble updating when it comes to it. What's the worst that could happen, your seed gets wiped during the update process? Then just reload it from your paper backup like you would be doing anyway with a brand new Nano.

If your reason is that you don't want to worry about storing the Nano securely, just wipe it instead of destroying it.

Seems wasteful to just throw the thing away.

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9 minutes ago, at3n said:

I don't really see the point of wantonly destroying a $100 Nano, just in case you have a bit of trouble updating when it comes to it. What's the worst that could happen, your seed gets wiped during the update process? Then just reload it from your paper backup like you would be doing anyway with a brand new Nano.

If your reason is that you don't want to worry about storing the Nano securely, just wipe it instead of destroying it.

Seems wasteful to just throw the thing away.

My thought is for those who find themselves in these situations:

1. Dont know how to update

2. Worried about updating

3. An unknown security flaw in the Nano which we wont know about for months 

4. An attack on the Nano (virus, who knows) because of some fault of the user, computer error, software error, hardware error, etc

5. Someone who doesnt want to worry about storing their Nano 'properly'.

6. Ledger has openly admitted mistakes very recently. https://www.ledger.fr/2019/02/14/righting-our-1-5-5-nano-s-firmware-update/

Mistakes are expected, but something as simple as not knowing how much capacity would be lost? Thats just ridiculous and I dont believe it.

7. Updating gives you one of dozens of error messages. User panics. Makes a mistake somehow and compromises their Nano  / XRP.

As long as you have your 24 words you dont need the Nano. I dont even think of it as destroying a device worth $100. Your 24 word seed becomes your $100 device.

Imagine XRP worth $500 and you have $700,000 worth of XRP 'on your Nano' ( i know its not actually on it). Now imagine Ledger once again saying you have to update your device. Who here wouldnt be crapping their pants updating a device worth $700,000? Instead, just buy a new one and clone it.

Or do nothing and keep holding your 24 words.

Problem solved. 

Edited by MegaNerd
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@MegaNerd I broadly get what you're saying, fair enough to have it as an option - it's essentially spending $100 to create a secure paper wallet without needing to build an offline PC environment first.

I just don't get the mentality that the updating process should be so intimidating that someone would rather buy a new Nano (which may not actually come with the current version) than just work through the update process. If there's some reason to think that there's a compromise on the old firmware your Nano's running, then wipe it before connecting to the PC, then update it, then reload it.

And sure, it gets tense when updating a device with a lot of money on it, but the Nano is not the main "source" of that value, there's no risk of loss as long as you have your 24 words, as you know. I'd rather first attempt an update and risk it removing the seed on the Nano, and if it fails, then fall back to relying on the 24 words. Rather than having the 24 words as the one and only possibility - I find that more stressful.

I don't mean to make an argument out if it though, it's a fair suggestion, the more options that people have to consider protecting their holdings, the better.

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