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4 hours ago, walterblueu said:

@BobWay (or anyone who knows) could the xrptipbot be used to handle rippling IOU payments?

It is possible to build a tipbot using rippling IOU payments. But I'm not sure how the current xrptipbot is implemented.

The trickiest thing to work out is how to allow someone to send some of your money, without giving them access to your secret. Using trust lines you can grant someone else the ability to spend a limited amount of money from your wallet (the tips you send), without giving them your secret. Or doing the alternative which is sending them the tipping money first, so they can send it from their account to the person you want to see tipped.

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I realised I have even more gaps in my knowledge than I thought...

Transaction History.  Correct me if I’m wrong...    

The ledger has a snapshot of current state across all accounts.  

Each Tran has a hash and blocks are hashed so everything is verifiable and immutable.   Most nodes don’t have a complete history.  Some do.  

Overall,  as a entire system,  is there any guarantee that the history is maintained?

I know we have some highly trusted entities with complete history,  but is that just happy circumstance?  Is it ensured?

I realise that to transact and proceed from ‘here’ the XRPLedger has all it needs in the current ledger.  But I’m not sure that a country enforcing multi year tax law will be happy if no reliable record is available.  

Obviously each participant is responsible for their own records etc but I’m wondering if the network as a whole has a guaranteed history.  (ignoring of course the three day bug in the beginning ledgers)

As it stands I’m assuming no.  Which seems a little at odds with our desire for XRPtheStandard responsible for world finance bridging.  

I’m guessing the answer is that it’s not needed but I feel that is actually not correct.  A world bridging new finance tech probably should have a guaranteed history availability.  

Bob do you any thoughts on this?  Anyone else?

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It's likely been asked before but because we now have access to such a great resource in @BobWay I would love to know your thoughts on how Ripple may have reacted internally when BG123 was prominent on Twitter and /r/rippled subreddit this time last year. Do you think there could have been an internal crack down on who may be leaking information? 

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14 minutes ago, Artoflife said:

It's likely been asked before but because we now have access to such a great resource in @BobWay I would love to know your thoughts on how Ripple may have reacted internally when BG123 was prominent on Twitter and /r/rippled subreddit this time last year. Do you think there could have been an internal crack down on who may be leaking information? 

I have to admit, I never notice him until I showed up in this forum a week or so ago. Don't remember anyone at Ripple every mentioning the name either. There are lots of loud people on the internet. Ripple has a social media team to monitor things, but maybe I was long gone from the company then. But going back in time, the only time I remember the company caring about internet trolls, was back in the "ripplescam" days. I've posted on that elsewhere in this forum.

By the way, people keep saying "leaking information".  Did he ever say anything that turned out to be true? Or that demonstrated advanced knowledge of a pending ripple press release?

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14 hours ago, Tinyaccount said:

The ledger has a snapshot of current state across all accounts.  

...

Overall,  as a entire system,  is there any guarantee that the history is maintained?

I’m not sure that a country enforcing multi year tax law will be happy if no reliable record is available.  

Bob do you any thoughts on this?  Anyone else?

Yes, your statement about the ledger is correct. In fact that is the term "XRP Ledger" means when talking to me, David or NikB.

Ripple has committed themselves to keeping a complete history. But mostly for their own self interest. This is done in two place. A full history inside some of the rippled nodes the company runs. And an extraction of information that is easier to query and search via the "Data API". However, I have no idea if they have committed to this as a long term guaranteed service for others

The nice thing is that it is trivial for anyone country anywhere to keep their own copy, without needing to ask permission from or depend on Ripple at all. You just set a flag on your rippled server and there you go. Anyone can also run their own copy of the Data API as well if that find that helpful.

So it turned out, "Yes, I did have thoughts."  :biggrin:

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Bearableguy123: probably the countdown with kids pictures till ripple donating to schools was the most clear cut & less general/open to opinion. That being the case likely to of at least got some kind of info from someone in the know from within ripple or it's partners?

Far from anything clear cut though.

It was fun & enjoyable riddles but little more than that & a nice way to pass the boring bear market days. Got a bit too serious when the infamous $589+ got going.....

Edited by scoobysi
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Thanks Bob for clearing that up for me.  So as it stands,  there is a history but no guarantee of one.

I think that it is likely there will always be one available because of the desires and needs of the ledger users...  but I feel it is somewhat less than satisfactory that the system doesn’t guarantee a history.  It could in fact transpire that for some future period there is no history available.

It doesn’t seem impossible to crowd source from the nodes a redundantly sharded history across many nodes such that the record IS guaranteed.  

So making one part of invariant checking a confirmation that some minimum percentage of nodes has recorded the previous ledger and that the linked list can be walked at least two steps back.  No doubt it is non-trivial to then guarantee that is all still available at a future point,   but I leave that bit for the smart folk out there to design....   :)     (  some sort of spawned asynchronous thread on the history-participating nodes doing the long walk and reporting back to the next available consensus round? A check on recent report statuses at consensus? )

All of this will of course guarantee the history and then also slow down consensus...   oh crap...   :) 

So yeah,  I can see why it isn’t done (as yet :)  ) but I believe it is possible and should actually be done.

@BobWay

 

 

Edited by Guest
Bobbed it with a tag...
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Well, I figure there is probably lots to BG123 stuff elsewhere on this site for me to browse. I'll just leave it there for now. If I feel the need, I'll leave the book club and venture out on my own looking for it.

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1 hour ago, Tinyaccount said:

It doesn’t seem impossible to crowd source from the nodes a redundantly sharded history across many nodes such that the record IS guaranteed.

Rippled does download the objects it needs like this, when it has to bootstrap a new node from scratch.

The biggest issue is just ideology. Ripple doesn't want to operate the network. It operates great in a peer-to-peer fashion as it was designed. And each peer is free to dedicate as much hardware and disk space to their node operation as they want. Ripple and no one else can say, "You must keep this information on your server." So if you wanted to assure a full history is forever available, it will likely have to be a community effort. I'm absolutely sure Ripple would NOT fight you on that project.

Curiously, it was actually a huge chunk of work, to get a running rippled node to actually delete the oldest part of its history. I needed to be able to do so as the history grew larger and it couldn't fit in average size SSD drives.

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Thanks Bob.

 I was just now thinking that maybe a not-for-profit Foundation might want to do the history and analytics end of things if they were suitably funded by someone with say 55 billion reasons to look after the health of the ecosystem.   :) 

The funding would need to be significant though if it was going to be a in-perpetuity kind of thing.  

For reliability symmetry and completeness reasons I would prefer that the system shard and guarantee history rather than rely on a third party though.

I understand the reasons why it’s not currently guaranteed,   but I do feel it’s the kind of thing that can bite you in the arse if ignored long enough.  @BobWay

 

Edited by Guest
Forgot to tag BusyBob... otherwise he might never see it...
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I really meant it you wanted to create a shared record, then that would be a good community project. Would take a bunch of deep technical know how. Would probably need to get pointers from NikB.

Really, the XRP Ledger is a payment system. So if they are valuable, makes sense to work out a way for the shard operators to get paid.

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19 hours ago, BobWay said:

By the way, people keep saying "leaking information".  Did he ever say anything that turned out to be true?

It's impressive how resilient BG123 is.

I had to reach out to him on twitter early last year and discovered he was a complete nincompoop and troll. His big "find" was posting the following wallets, thinking he had hit upon Mastercard Indonesia's XRP wallet/s (quickly debunked by mars75):

This lead a bunch of XRPChat users into a likely honeypot/phishing/practical joke run by this guy. End result was a good number of people closing their accounts here and deleting profiles thinking their computers and phones had been hacked.

Yep, BG123 ticks all the boxes of a knowledgeable insider. Of course I say this assuming one is prepared to accept that he was neither "knowledgeable" nor "inside". :)

 

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1 hour ago, princesultan said:

Not sure what thread to add this to, but What’s your thoughts on this @BobWay?

I moved the above question to General from the introduction List.

Santander is very forward thinking. They were also very eager to expand their corridors. So if that is what they say, I'd believe them at face value.

What maybe be confusing people is the difference between xRapid as a product and XRP as a bridge or settlement asset. Specifically, xRapid started out initially as a product marketed towards payment services and remittance companied. This is a separate payment ecosystem to bank transfers. (There are other payment ecosystems). The xRapid product uses XRP as its bridge asset in order to facilitate liquidity for those payment services companies.

Santander started out using xCurrent before xRapid even existed (if memory serves). All xCurrent customers get to decide how they want to configure each of their corridor's liquidity relationships. Often they use some form of synchronized nostro or vostro accounts. But of course these need to be pre-funded or settled after the fact. How that happens is up to the bank. XRP payment paths are as good a solution to pre-funding or settling bi-lateral (two party) accounts as they are for other types of payments. 

I have no specific information regarding the latest on Santander, but It is reasonable to presume that xCurrent banks might decide to use XRP in their flows, without being that effort branded as xRapid. Since the xRapid branding was developed for a different industry.

Edited by BobWay
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