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BobWay

Hi! I'm Bob

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21 minutes ago, Tinyaccount said:

An issue that arises in that Community Credit system is taxation...  does the government want a piece?  Every time I’ve looked at this idea the giant wall in my mind is what the governments will want to do to it....

 

I presume that at least initially, the United States will consider them taxable as either payments or barter (in practice it doesn't matter which) unless they are non-taxable gifts.

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1 minute ago, JoelKatz said:

I presume that at least initially, the United States will consider them taxable as either payments or barter (in practice it doesn't matter which) unless they are non-taxable gifts.

Thanks David for sharing your thoughts.  If they are to be taxed then we will need an agreed on method of valuation to fiat.  Is that a simple matter of looking at the Ledger orderbook?

Does it need a third party to keep a historical record of CC to Fiat valuations for use in that way,  or is there a lookup built into the ledger?

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@JoelKatz advertising guy here.   does ripple plan on doing an forward facing advertising in the near future?  my mind immediately goes to the design animation world, and all of the incredible ways the tech behind ripple could be presented to the masses in that format.  

look at all the traction @BobWay is getting via this forum, i can imagine turning the dial just a bit towards a consumer facing video could be greatly beneficial as well. 

something like this comes to mind: 

http://buck.tv/#/work/project/12013/palette-perfect

http://buck.tv/#/work/project/11755/datagrams

https://nexusstudios.com/work/wef-ticket-office/

Edited by screenshot

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7 minutes ago, BobWay said:

Sorry, It's not the clearest thing I've ever read. But like the girl in the picture, I'm used to talking with my hands and drawing on a whiteboard. I'm handicapped by text.

Always willing to continue the conversation until you feel like you are grounded.

You also consider speed of the market which i never did. And that makes sense. You are saying that as long as impatient buyers/sellers exist, there will be demand. And that has nothing to do with a certain number of xrp available in the markets...gimme a bit time here. Appreciate your offer. Thank you.

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9 minutes ago, Tinyaccount said:

Thanks David for sharing your thoughts.  If they are to be taxed then we will need an agreed on method of valuation to fiat.  Is that a simple matter of looking at the Ledger orderbook?

Does it need a third party to keep a historical record of CC to Fiat valuations for use in that way,  or is there a lookup built into the ledger?

The nice thing is that the credit and payments  is denominated in the local currency, so you don’t have to bother.

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13 minutes ago, screenshot said:

look at all the traction @BobWay is getting via this forum, i can imagine turning the dial just a bit towards a consumer facing video could be greatly beneficial as well. 

You don’t happen to know a graphic designer or (simple) animator do you?

I lost Fabian when I left Ripple. I have a bunch of diagrams that could use a professional touch.

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1 hour ago, JoelKatz said:

No, nothing like that.

Community credit is about "money" arising from interactions between peers rather than between issuers and users.

For example, suppose you do something for me and I allow you to "owe me one". The idea is for this to act as a currency. Someone who wants something from me (and who I don't trust enough to let them owe me one) wants me to owe them one rather than owing you one. So if they do something for you, you could give them the "marker" you got when you did me a favor and now I owe them a favor. These "markers" can function as a currency.

It's kind of like a system where all that exists is balances between people. You may trust me enough to extend me credit. So when I want something from you, you may let me owe you $50 but no more. You now have a +$50 balance and I have a -$50 balance. Now if I want something else from you, I'm out of credit. So I need to find someone who either you owe money to or who will let you borrow from them and give them something for which they in return will restore my credit.

So, for example, say you have Alice, Bill, and Charlie. Alice is highly trusted because she has a valuable commercial network and both Bill and Charlie are willing to let Alice owe them money. Alice needs something from Charlie and in exchange Charlie lets Alice owe her $20.

So now, Charlie owes Alice $20. Alice can borrow from Bill or Charlie.

Now, say Bill wants something from Alice. Alice won't extend Bill any credit because she doesn't trust him. But Bill can give Charlie $20 and in exchange for the $20 Alice owes him and now Alice owes $20 to Bill. Bill can pay Alice $20 with her own IOU.

This is precisely how all assets other than XRP work in the XRP Ledger. They're always balances between accounts, either account can extend credit to the other, and balances can "ripple" through accounts.

By having XRP in the mix, credit can be settled and restored immediately. For example, Alice can place an offer to give out a $10 IOU for 32 XRP. Now if someone owes Alice $10, they can buy a $10 IOU from Alice and the two IOUs cancel out. This will restore their credit.

This is an implementation of Ryan Fugger's original vision of money arising out of community relationships and providing people a network of assets and credits they can contribute to and draw off of. Arthur's genius was to provide a system of gateways to allow the system to be easily connected to external financial systems to help avoid the problem of long paths or unidirectional flows.

Ah ok , so a way to facilitate an exchange of skills/services between parties at an agreed upon price/IOU.

 

Kind of like if you could go to a store and buy from a big list of skills/people to help you do " ___" task. 

Or like those sites like fiverr  I guess for creative help.

 

That is a useful concept 😀

Edited by DividendGamer

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I'm blown away by this thread. Thank you Bob for taking the time to help us all understand everything Ripple and XRP. I've learned so much from it. It's awesome having David, Nik and others drop in to contribute as well, it's a real treat for us mere mortals. Thank you!

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1 hour ago, JoelKatz said:

No, nothing like that.

Community credit is about "money" arising from interactions between peers rather than between issuers and users.

For example, suppose you do something for me and I allow you to "owe me one". The idea is for this to act as a currency. Someone who wants something from me (and who I don't trust enough to let them owe me one) wants me to owe them one rather than owing you one. So if they do something for you, you could give them the "marker" you got when you did me a favor and now I owe them a favor. These "markers" can function as a currency.

It's kind of like a system where all that exists is balances between people. You may trust me enough to extend me credit. So when I want something from you, you may let me owe you $50 but no more. You now have a +$50 balance and I have a -$50 balance. Now if I want something else from you, I'm out of credit. So I need to find someone who either you owe money to or who will let you borrow from them and give them something for which they in return will restore my credit.

So, for example, say you have Alice, Bill, and Charlie. Alice is highly trusted because she has a valuable commercial network and both Bill and Charlie are willing to let Alice owe them money. Alice needs something from Charlie and in exchange Charlie lets Alice owe her $20.

So now, Charlie owes Alice $20. Alice can borrow from Bill or Charlie.

Now, say Bill wants something from Alice. Alice won't extend Bill any credit because she doesn't trust him. But Bill can give Charlie $20 and in exchange for the $20 Alice owes him and now Alice owes $20 to Bill. Bill can pay Alice $20 with her own IOU.

This is precisely how all assets other than XRP work in the XRP Ledger. They're always balances between accounts, either account can extend credit to the other, and balances can "ripple" through accounts.

By having XRP in the mix, credit can be settled and restored immediately. For example, Alice can place an offer to give out a $10 IOU for 32 XRP. Now if someone owes Alice $10, they can buy a $10 IOU from Alice and the two IOUs cancel out. This will restore their credit.

This is an implementation of Ryan Fugger's original vision of money arising out of community relationships and providing people a network of assets and credits they can contribute to and draw off of. Arthur's genius was to provide a system of gateways to allow the system to be easily connected to external financial systems to help avoid the problem of long paths or unidirectional flows.

Isn't this the whole trust lines thing that ripple used to always be about years back?

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One thing I’ve long thought was missing in the internet is there needs to be an authoritative way to tell if a person you meet on the internet has credibility.  Like reputation points or Seller rating on eBay.

Years ago I was thinking of Cred..  a points scheme for credibility.  It’s just now occurred to me that the xrpledger could be the perfect vehicle for Cred.  

Its actually a complex topic because there are multiple types of Cred needed..  Physics Cred and Health Matters Cred And Honesty Cred etc.  Also there is the vexed question of how and who rates this Cred thingy.

But the dream is that you are talking about visiting a new place and someone offers you a ride on their boat to an island destination over the internet...  are they honest actors?  Will they sting you for an outrageous fuel bill at the end of trip...   Or you ask how likely is it that man will colonise the moon...  the reply comes from someone you’ve never heard of and they say there is an insurmountable problem...  are they credible? (these are bad and hastily conceived examples but the idea can apply to many things)

The biggest problem I’ve had thinking about this occasionally over the years is how do you work a market to achieve good valuations of credibility?

My Dad was a bloke you could hand a million dollars to and ask him to hold it till next year.  A year later your funds would be ready for you.  He was as decent a man as I’ve ever known.  But how would any of you ever know that if you met him on the internet?  Not that he ever wanted to understand that silly computer thingy...   :) 

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2 minutes ago, Tinyaccount said:

One thing I’ve long thought was missing in the internet is there needs to be an authoritative way to tell if a person you meet on the internet has credibility.  Like reputation points or Seller rating on eBay.

Years ago I was thinking of Cred..  a points scheme for credibility.  It’s just now occurred to me that the xrpledger could be the perfect vehicle for Cred.  

Its actually a complex topic because there are multiple types of Cred needed..  Physics Cred and Health Matters Cred And Honesty Cred etc.  Also there is the vexed question of how and who rates this Cred thingy.

But the dream is that you are talking about visiting a new place and someone offers you a ride on their boat to an island destination over the internet...  are they honest actors?  Will they sting you for an outrageous fuel bill at the end of trip...   Or you ask how likely is it that man will colonise the moon...  the reply comes from someone you’ve never heard of and they say there is an insurmountable problem...  are they credible? (these are bad and hastily conceived examples but the idea can apply to many things)

The biggest problem I’ve had thinking about this occasionally over the years is how do you work a market to achieve good valuations of credibility?

My Dad was a bloke you could hand a million dollars to and ask him to hold it till next year.  A year later your funds would be ready for you.  He was as decent a man as I’ve ever known.  But how would any of you ever know that if you met him on the internet?  Not that he ever wanted to understand that silly computer thingy...   :) 

I like it, but can't help but see the dark side of this concept that seems to be taking place in China with their social score rating system. I think it even shows their debt/credit rating.

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4 hours ago, Flintstone said:

@KarmaCoverage Is this along the lines of what you are working on!

I originally thought of, and still do think of KC as spreading risk across an escrow graph. After some conversations with @Mercury I realized the same financial flow arrangement goals could also be accomplished via a negative interest rate loan methodology.. which may additionally enable value flow across time,  in addition to, through the network of peers.

---

I havent read this whole thread yet, but I sincerely appreciate @BobWay's comments that I have read so far. 

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