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SWIFT Chief Announces Integration With R3 At Paris Fintech Forum

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I posted...

This confuses me for sure... I understand how the word "settlement" is being used, but isn't every transaction eventually converted to fiat? Could this be the way that they are using the word "settlement"?

For example, suppose I live half the year in the U.S./half the year in Japan - I could buy (transfer) XRP with dollars, fly to Japan where (assuming I had a Japanese bank account) I could sell/withdraw to Yen. Then the transaction would be "settled".

4 hours ago, Valhalla_Guy said:

The “convert to Fiat” is the hard part. That is where xRapid hits it’s largest obstacle, when dealing with it’s primary customer targets, which would be those “unbanked” victims in our world. Unfortunately those unbanked folks, also happen to be the citizens of the least productive societies among us, meaning most other countries really do not want third world currencies in their portfolios. Thus the money flow is always one directional, and xRapid breaks down under these circumstances.

To Your second point: Yes you could transfer your USD to JPN, but you also could simply use your US Credit cards or Debit cards in Japan. Japan is a productive and well developed society, with infrastructure that allows for seamless fiat transactions at the point of purchase. You will always get the best xfer rate. Since you cannot spend XRP in Japan (or anywhere else on earth) there really is no need to have it, on a personal level.

Thanks @Valhalla_Guy I guess Japan wasn't a very good example, and my question was poorly formed as well - what I was trying to address is the contention that XRP wouldn't be used along with GPI because of the statement below... I was just trying to ask: Isn't all "settlement" in fiat? I don't think the statement precludes XRP use just because it is "settled "in fiat... :unknown:

image.thumb.png.885e5ca1269a46b4a17b0ad696383c9d.png

Edited by GiddyUp
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10 hours ago, Valhalla_Guy said:

The “convert to Fiat” is the hard part. That is where xRapid hits it’s largest obstacle, when dealing with it’s primary customer targets, which would be those “unbanked” victims in our world. Unfortunately those unbanked folks, also happen to be the citizens of the least productive societies among us, meaning most other countries really do not want third world currencies in their portfolios. Thus the money flow is always one directional, and xRapid breaks down under these circumstances.

I don't follow you. Isn't this in fact one of the biggest attractions of xrapid: that people can transfer money more easily in and out of difficult places precisely because the currencies and governments in those places are less trustworthy and/or stable? That poorer people experience much higher transaction costs for this reason? This is why people in those countries often use USD, as mentioned above. Because USD is a trusted and stable asset. Well XRP could also be that. And this comes back to the point: XRP is not just a digi-dollar. It has other properties that make it more attractive. 

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16 hours ago, Trickery said:

Because fiat only has value in the issuing country, I can't go down to my local store and buy beer with the USD I have left over from a trip to Hawaii and I would have trouble exchanging my Zimbabwe dollars for any other currency after a trip to Africa but I can trade XRP for any currency I wish and I don't have to physically take it to an exchange, that simple attribute gives it value.

Really?? You are making your point by implying frictionless liquidity everywhere, yet that is not reality, so sure, in some fantasy land (XRPChat)  you are correct.

To All: I completely understand how xRapid is supposed to work, but uAll cannot keep repeating the same falsehoods about universal liquidity. There is no such thing. To which uAll reply with  “no such thing YET”

I reply with “Why? “What is going to change?” Why would Banks or people of nations, who are not transferring their local prosperity outwards, suddenly decide to abandon their own local fiat, and buy up all of the incoming XRP?”  

This 1 directional wealth flow is a reality of life. Productive nations export excess  prosperity by employing citizens of poorer nations. Who in turn want to “send it home” Meaning even the non citizen worker values his own local fiat higher than the fiat, in which he was paid. Like Heat transfers to Cold, the higher energy state will always transfer to the lower.

You also skipped the point of how you will take your $ZB and deposit them in your local country, so you can make the miracle XRP digital exchange happen. I do not believe $ZB come with their own digital wallets, and if you deposit them in your local bank, you will will wait a few days to possibly weeks, for it to post as settled. 

 

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18 hours ago, lucky said:

Don't confuse lowest paid with least productive. I enjoy coffee, bananas and chocolate almost every day.

If they produced more coffe, or something more valuable than coffe, like say Jet Airliners, they would be paid more.

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11 hours ago, Seoulite said:

I don't follow you. Isn't this in fact one of the biggest attractions of xrapid: that people can transfer money more easily in and out of difficult places precisely because the currencies and governments in those places are less trustworthy and/or stable? That poorer people experience much higher transaction costs for this reason? This is why people in those countries often use USD, as mentioned above. Because USD is a trusted and stable asset. Well XRP could also be that. And this comes back to the point: XRP is not just a digi-dollar. It has other properties that make it more attractive. 

Sorry but transferring money out of poor nations is an oxymoron. XRapid was intended to ease the flow of money from prosperous nations into the poorer nations, where the laborers live. Poor nations aren’t looking for iPhones or luxury cars, they are looking for work, because they have no money. Which means no money to export.

$USD is a trusted and stable currency, because it is backed by the FULL FAITH AND POWER of one of the most trusted societies on the planet. Everyone knows that the US Govt, and all US citizens will accept the dollar for goods and services. If you try to defraud the dollar you will be facing the wrath and punishment of the US Feds (unless you are a Democrat then you are safe)

I do not trust faceless bit nerds, running basement validators, to back up my currency; and I certainly would not fear their wrath. Most of them wet their pants when you mention the word gun. They would view counterfeit and theft  of XRP as “alternative behaviors” and then blame the victim, for being a hater, or being too rich in the first place.

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4 hours ago, Valhalla_Guy said:

If they produced more coffe, or something more valuable than coffe, like say Jet Airliners, they would be paid more.

What a nonsense. The reason someone harvesting coffee for a full day gets paid less than the price of a cup of coffee in Starbucks has very little to do with the product that is created, and everything with friction in the global money infrastructure.

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1 hour ago, lucky said:

What a nonsense. The reason someone harvesting coffee for a full day gets paid less than the price of a cup of coffee in Starbucks has very little to do with the product that is created, and everything with friction in the global money infrastructure.

No the reason is because you won’t pay more for your cup of coffee at  Starsucks. How about having them double their prices and run a huge campaign to “Pay the coffee picker more money” That would be a fair test of your money against your mouth.

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6 hours ago, Valhalla_Guy said:

$USD is a trusted and stable currency, because it is backed by the FULL FAITH AND POWER of one of the most trusted societies on the planet.

 

6 hours ago, Valhalla_Guy said:

Most of them wet their pants when you mention the word gun. 

Let me guess....   a real live gun toting ‘merican patriot right there....  it’s so lovely to see them when they burst with misplaced pride and display all their feathers.  :) 

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1 hour ago, Tinyaccount said:

 

Let me guess....   a real live gun toting ‘merican patriot right there....  it’s so lovely to see them when they burst with misplaced pride and display all their feathers.  :) 

Not sure I get your angle, nor who left you out of your safe space, but the same logic behind Trust and Faith in US currency goes for the GBP and the EUR and many other societies, HENCE I said “ONE of the world’s” You seem a little sensitive today, worried about the big game, and how cool you will look when you take a knee?

 If you trust equally then please let us know, How much of your investment portfolio is in $ZB or pesos, or any foreign currency?

Plus if you are ashamed of the country you live in, that is your fault, for supporting it. Move out, just don’t come to America, for some reason it seems everyone wants to come here, and we have no idea why. It is horrible here, living amongst-all  the racists and violence. Heck we don’t even have socialized healthcare, and the majority still believes restrooms are designed for biological and not psychological purposes!  We have nothing. Yet they still come, Ironically all of them from heavily socialized societies??? (WTF)

Secondly, Who enforces the law when theft or fraud occurs? Who literally backs up XRP as a valuable (whatever it is )?  Are you one of those who feels that world listen’s to the US because we are white and privileged? Sorry it is because of our military strength. Nothing else. When was the last time Cuba enforced one of their economic sanctions against the US? Anybody fear the wrath of Cuba?? If so do not purchase goods from the US, they forbid it!

You sound like someone who feels things just happen, because they do. Sorry but the world’s population trust what is strong because strength is security, and security is trustworthy. Sucsessful societies are not a result of random choice from unfair circumstances. You simply  free the human spirit, and your society will innovate and suceeed. You socialize it and try make everybody equal, and you will cripple it.

If human history, has any lesson, it is that Govt’s can AlWAYS make everybody poor; they can  NEVER make everybody rich.

Edited by Valhalla_Guy

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48 minutes ago, Valhalla_Guy said:

Not sure I get your angle, nor who left you out of your safe space,

Woah...   apparently tweaking a patriotic ‘merican can cause a long rant.  Ok, maybe I should leave these trigger happy ones alone.  Lesson learnt.  Maybe.   :) 

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9 hours ago, Valhalla_Guy said:

Why would Banks or people of nations, who are not transferring their local prosperity outwards, suddenly decide to abandon their own local fiat, and buy up all of the incoming XRP?”  

Not all participants of the transaction are local. I've tried to point this out before. There are situations when more eur or usd end up as mxn but there are numerous ways for exchange participants to move mxn out of mexico to another exchange if that is what they desire. It's not a dead end. 

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On 2/2/2019 at 3:08 PM, Valhalla_Guy said:

The “convert to Fiat” is the hard part. That is where xRapid hits it’s largest obstacle, when dealing with it’s primary customer targets, which would be those “unbanked” victims in our world. Unfortunately those unbanked folks, also happen to be the citizens of the least productive societies among us, meaning most other countries really do not want third world currencies in their portfolios. Thus the money flow is always one directional, and xRapid breaks down under these circumstances.

To Your second point: Yes you could transfer your USD to JPN, but you also could simply use your US Credit cards or Debit cards in Japan. Japan is a productive and well developed society, with infrastructure that allows for seamless fiat transactions at the point of purchase. You will always get the best xfer rate. Since you cannot spend XRP in Japan (or anywhere else on earth) there really is no need to have it, on a personal level.

 

Here is one theory...

On 1/25/2019 at 3:19 PM, KarmaCoverage said:

FYI... I have not read this thread and this post is only answering the above question...

The "how xPool" write up was the 4th in a sort of unintended series, as I thought through the key aspects of each write up, I would let it marinate for a few months, then write it up. The whole thing started with Payment Channels & Ripple as a Lender - Part 1 (May 17) Some of this thinking is also influenced by my thinking about KarmaCoverage because it must be a multi ledger service (each risk gets its own "risk ledger") and connecting all these ledgers is KarmaCoverage which is a market making business, making markets between risk ledgers.

Regarding Ripple, I was initially coming at this from the angle of, "market participants need a way to go short, or buy a put, or swap on XRP".  There were many threads on this topic over the years, but nobody could really figure it out, shorting or loaning/borrowing crypto (which is needed to go short), because there is no crypto enforcement-ability on repayment.

After Payment Channels came out I was looking at it and realized it could be used (by Ripple, or a whale) to create a type of loan to their Exchange partners who are participating in Ripples efforts to subsidize XRP liquidity, or "market maker incentives". The Exchanges are running markets, so they would qualify as a "market maker", and the exchanges hold the crypto in a hosted wallet, so they always maintain custody of the XRP, thereby they have enforcement-ability, meaning they can enable their users to borrow XRP and "go short" just like equity brokerage houses do with stocks (borrowing from one client, lending to another client).

Miguel knows well that being able to trade both sides of a market is absolutely required for any "mature market". So, I'd figure enabling the Exchanges to enable their users to "go short" would be a desired goal. That first write up is about..

  1. Ripple Inc as a lender of XRP. Risk exposure goals: Ripple keep upside, protect borrower from downside
  2. Improved market stability, derived from the ability to short XRP
  3. How would Exchange MM’s use XRP in a PayChan without exposing the Exchange (borrower) to downside risks.

From there, I realized that Ripple is actually giving these exchanges an XRP Line of Credit (LoC), which is a type of loan. Then I started thinking about the banks wanting to use XRPLedger but there not being enough Liquidity, all while Ripple Inc is sitting on Billions of XRP which is going un-utilized in the market.

Then I was thinking of the spreads on an orderbook in terms of Quality in/out.. which is effectively equal to the interest rate on a loan. Then I was wondering how Ripple could manage lending to many banks, so the banks can lend to their corp clients for the duration of a transaction. Then I started thinking about CrowdLending and using a weighted average to calculate the cost of the interest, but making it a "weighted average Quality in/out".

This whole time I have been wondering how the Pathfinding/Routing is being accomplished across ILP via RippleNet, while going around XRPLedger where the Pathfinding is done for free. Then I realized that each bank is running their own private Rippled ledger, and they could express their Nostro/Vostro relationships via IOUs on their own Rippled ledger... with the fees/interest expressed in Quality in/out.

Then I realized if you took a bunch of Rippled ledgers and strung them together in this way, each ledger acting as an ILP Connector (multi hop bank) then each ledger's internal pathfinding algo would find the highest quality path through that bank's N/V relationships.... and since the pathfinding is accomplished across many ledgers, with no single ledger doing the full routing (or having a full routing table, business secrets and all that) the system would be accomplishing... Distributed Pathfinding.

Carry on reading that thread. It's a good discussion on the topic.

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