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25 minutes ago, Eric123 said:

@Julian_Williams@Hodor I haven't relocated anywhere and I'm mining albeit not at a profit the last 5 or so months.

No one is doing XRP and favors by trying to bring down Bitcoin.  

1) Then why do you continue to mine if you're losing money?

2) I'm not trying to 'bring down Bitcoin.'  The very first part of my article indicates that I don't want to see people lose money.  However, the entire cryptomarket needs to turn its back on obviously-obsolete technology (including ALL P.O.W. coins) that uses the equivalent power output of the nation of Austria. 

 

I expected push-back from miners.  Looks like I was correct.  I'm sorry you're in a tough spot, and I (honestly) wish you the best of luck in transitioning to some other profitable endeavor. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Eric123 said:

@Hodor I'm not "caught"  as far as I'm concerned it's the same thing.  I'm sure most people would agree with me. 

Whether (a) the founders of Ripple created XRP and then gifted said XRP to the company or (b) XRP was created by the founders as employees of Ripple, it is different sides of the same coin.  I have long considered Ripple's argument that the company did not create XRP a stretch to say the least.

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24 minutes ago, Eric123 said:

Ok the company didn't make it the people that make up the company made it then gave it to the company.  Yeah that's called Semantics.

These small differences are everything from a legal perspective.  And the legal perspective is really the only perspective that has any bearing on this discussion IMO.

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1 hour ago, Eric123 said:

@Hodor I'm not "caught"  as far as I'm concerned it's the same thing.  I'm sure most people would agree with me. 

Rather than say it was a semantic difference I would say it was a chance wriggle that has given them enough to technically hang a hat on.  I think the Bitcoin Maximalists like to make out that that the pre-minting coins was some sort of scam that was done to make the owners of a lot of money and allowed them to create a centralised coin. The way you write you seem to agree with this analysis and you are repeating an antagonism between XRP and Bitcoin that goes back many years.   

It is now impossible to say XRP is less de-centralised than Bitcoin, but it is a valid criticism to point out that the pre-minted coins, of which about 70% are under the control of Ripple and the directors, is a cause for concern.  Especially as owning 70 billion XRP will quite probably make Ripple and its the owners the richest business on earth.  The strategic positioning of the DA as a bridging currency will also give the owners both huge power.  I think this issue of huge wealth and power will have to be addressed quite soon. I don't think the owners realised how successful their company would be, this wealth and power is probably a bit of a surprise and embarrassment.

In Ripples defence I think they had very good technical reasons to abandon PoW in favour of the XRPledger Consensus model, and their reasoning has turned out to be sound.  The  consensus model allowed XRP to be more scalable, faster, more secure and cheaper to run than any PoW crypto can get close to.  

Fortunately for us the owners of Ripple Labs are using their income from XRP to finance the expansion and development of the XRP ecosystem, for the benefit of all the stakeholders.  They are also generous in their charitable donations.  I think they are aware that at some point they will have to relinquish their huge stash of tokens into the hands of some sort of international financial institution.

I am sorry to hear you are losing money on your mining.  I hope you made plenty during the good times.  Obviously it is for you to decide if Bitcoin really has a future.     

Edited by Julian_Williams

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Thanks for the blog @Hodor!

Regarding the ETC hack, I have to say I find it absolutely mindboggling the coin still follows the rest of the market. If this coins doesn't start to fall down the abyss as soon as Coinbase reopens ETC trading, I will be lost for words.

On the other hand, the fact that Coinbase has to make an official announcement regarding the hack of the ETC blockchain puts a smile on my face.. 😀

Edited by PactaSuntServanda

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17 hours ago, PactaSuntServanda said:

Thanks for the blog @Hodor!

Regarding the ETC hack, I have to say I find it absolutely mindboggling the coin still follows the rest of the market. If this coins doesn't start to fall down the abyss as soon as Coinbase reopens ETC trading, I will be lost for words.

It tells you everything about how screwed up this market is.   Value has very little to do with performance or prospects in the real world.  I think things are changing

Edited by Julian_Williams

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20 hours ago, Helmsdeep said:

There used to be a bitcoin ATM in Melbourne . I guess it's clear writing on the wall to know that instead of there being more bitcoin ATMs in Melbourne signalling  growth and adoption instead there are now no bitcoin ATMs .

I read this odd/enlightening story the other day - it would seem that Melbourne is an anomaly...

https://cointelegraph.com/news/almost-5-new-cryptocurrency-atms-installed-worldwide-each-day-data-shows

Almost 5 New Cryptocurrency ATMs Installed Worldwide Each Day, Data Shows

By Marie Huillet JAN 11, 2019

"The current rate of growth is 4.9 new ATMs installed each day, according to Coin ATM Radar’s gauge scale — tipping into the highest speed class, despite persistently bearish market action."

 

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I think it's simple:  Something that currently needs the power consumption of an average european country to process 3-6 transactions per second, and will need more and more in the future cannot survive. Especially if the only solution to scaling (Lightning network) is to create a centralized software layer on top of your decentralized dream system.

Right now it's simply the most known crypto currency, and has too many big guys financially connected to it that won't let it die off just yet.
 

Edited by Caracappa

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18 hours ago, Sebastian said:

Whether (a) the founders of Ripple created XRP and then gifted said XRP to the company or (b) XRP was created by the founders as employees of Ripple, it is different sides of the same coin.  I have long considered Ripple's argument that the company did not create XRP a stretch to say the least.

They created both the asset and the company. That is not a stretch but a documented fact.

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20 hours ago, Eric123 said:

No one is doing XRP and favors by trying to bring down Bitcoin. 

Nobody needs to 'bring down' bitcoin. It will happen naturally. Bitcoin's flaw won't hold up in a world where, surprise, energy is not unlimited. Though if someone found a way to mine profitably with solar panels or fusion reactors, that would be cool. There's better things to do with that energy than supporting an outdated technology though, so it won't happen. Either way, the fate of XRP is not tied to bitcoin long term. The current cryptomarket may be revolving around bitcoin because it was the first, markets evolve as we've seen before our eyes.

Bring down bitcoin. :popcorn1:

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On 1/13/2019 at 11:57 PM, Eric123 said:

Is it a better model to put all the power in the hands of one company that pre-mines 100billion coins and then sells them?

Nothing was mined. It seems you have a lot of basic facts about Ripple and XRP wrong. 

Yes semantics. ******** is another term.

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18 hours ago, Julian_Williams said:

They are also generous in their charitable donations.  I think they are aware that at some point they will have to relinquish their huge stash of tokens into the hands of some sort of international financial institution.

The ripple team is incredibly strong, focused , and strategically placed in various positions(outside of ripple) to maximize their influence in steering the right people to make correct decisions for the benefit of all , I've thought a lot about their huge stash and that seems to be stumbling block for quite a few people (morally, jealousy, envy) . But it won't be such a large stash when major banks,FI's , pension funds and the like start holding xrp not just for utility but as an asset, you start compounding those factors globally,  it will dwindle away rapidly. 

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14 minutes ago, Truckdriver said:

The ripple team is incredibly strong, focused , and strategically placed in various positions(outside of ripple) to maximize their influence in steering the right people to make correct decisions for the benefit of all , I've thought a lot about their huge stash and that seems to be stumbling block for quite a few people (morally, jealousy, envy) . But it won't be such a large stash when major banks,FI's , pension funds and the like start holding xrp not just for utility but as an asset, you start compounding those factors globally,  it will dwindle away rapidly. 

What will happen with the big amount of XRP in possesion of Ripple I cannot tell, but I do not believe they will have the timeline to sell it to the last one. There will become a point in where the best option will be what Julian says: Donate the majority to a central, IMF like, institute to preserve the future of the asset and the company (and keep some for theirselves to build the ecosystem), or become/start a marketmaker/Central Bank themselves.

I read the thread in where the sales of Jed's stash seem to have halted. Not that it allready has, but I can imagine they will go back to the drawingboard sooner than later to decide what to do with all the XPR's the founders posses, and then make a deal with them to get that issue out of the equation.

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20 minutes ago, Caracappa said:

What will happen with the big amount of XRP in possesion of Ripple I cannot tell, but I do not believe they will have the timeline to sell it to the last one. There will become a point in where the best option will be what Julian says: Donate the majority to a central, IMF like

With the connection to IMF certainly a possibility later down the road, going on sales now OTC/retail it would take a long time,  but I'm thinking of it as a asset class as well , gold alone is 7 trillion , if it's the stand alone option that the masses want , maybe the demand will outstrip the supply,  like you said who can tell, I'd rather see it spread out than a single organization holding a large bag. Either way we should do ok :D

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