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xRapid execution order confirmed by David Schwarz

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4 minutes ago, GoldenGoose said:

Agreed. I'm not taking it to the level of groceries and so forth. I'm talking about the forces of supply and demand on floating currencies and their relative rates of exchange. To use a more obvious example, not many people want to hold onto Venezuelan bolivars. As they clamor to exchange them for other currencies, their value declines precipitously. Of course, it's also true that hyperinflation causes them to clamor to exchange them for other currencies or more reliable stores of value. And, yes, we would say we "bought XRP;" but when we reverse the transaction, we are also "buying dollars" even though we call it selling XRP. In the former case, we got rid of dollars and no longer own them. In the latter, we bought them back again.

It all depends on which level you’re viewing things:  1 crypto-exchange? All crypto exchanges? Worldwide Forex market?  It may seem a question of semantics, but agreeing on the discussed level is the first thing to do, before one can make statements, or discussions like @BrownBear and @P3T3RIS ( and others) are having. A currency can be the base on 1 exchange, but globally just a good like all other goods. 

There’s a reason why we say : I just sold some XRP and not “ I just bought some USD”. 

Anyway: back to work, sadly, be back tonight. 

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16 minutes ago, Ripple-Stiltskin said:

 

There’s a reason why we say : I just sold some XRP and not “ I just bought some USD”. 

 

Oh I dunno, I just had a discussion over that because David Schwartz Tweet said 'Purchase fiat'. My thinking was you need to sell XRP to buy fiat as you need someone to want to buy your XRP by selling you their fiat for XRP, which means you technically bought fiat with XRP. *head spins*

Sell fiat to buy XRP to send XRP to someplace to sell XRP so you can buy fiat and give it to X

gah now I am feeling sick.

Edited by BrownBear

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29 minutes ago, BrownBear said:

Oh I dunno, I just had a discussion over that because David Schwartz Tweet said 'Purchase fiat'. My thinking was you need to sell XRP to buy fiat as you need someone to want to buy your XRP by selling you their fiat for XRP, which means you technically bought fiat with XRP. *head spins*

Sell fiat to buy XRP to send XRP to someplace to sell XRP so you can buy fiat and give it to X

gah now I am feeling sick.

Lol. Why do we call money “ money”  and other goods not so? 

We don’t say “ I just bought some money” , because we agreed to call the general accepted good we buy things with “ money”.  

 

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21 minutes ago, Ripple-Stiltskin said:

Lol. Why do we call money “ money”  and other goods not so? 

We don’t say “ I just bought some money” , because we agreed to call the general accepted good we buy things with “ money”.  

 

That's so money. 

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The problem here is may be that some people are confusing "money" (a subjective term), with what are intended to be objective terms such as "base" and "counter".  In terms of a Japanese person and a European person for example, who are exchanging EUR/JPY on that forex market, both think of their respectively held currencies as "money".  If they went on to discuss what happened each using the term money, everyone would become hopelessly confused.  This is one reason the terms "base" and "counter" exist in currency trading (though they're such nasty, unfamiliar jargon terms its arguable they don't help the confusion all that much).

Suffice to say, USD is not necessarily "money" to the other 95% of the world, and its not particularly helpful to think of it that way when having discussions around the purchase and sale of country-agnostic digital assets.  This is the reason David refers to non-digital currency as "fiat" - it's not a subjective term.  If for example, he'd said "Every xRapid payment that succeeds involves a sale of money for XRP and then a purchase of money with XRP on one of the crypto exchanges that partners with us.", it would sound awfully unprofessional and appear to devalue XRP itself.

In summary:  retrain yourself to think USD does not necessarily equal "money", you'll have more productive discussions about, well... money.  ;)

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I can say, "I'm driving up the street" OR "I'm driving down the street." It doesn't matter. What does matter is that my car is on the side the rules say it's supposed to be on.

I can say, "I'm buying XRP" OR "I'm selling USD." It doesn't matter. What does matter is that my offer is on the side the rules say it's supposed to be on. 

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1 minute ago, LordVetinari said:

What does matter is that my car is on the side the rules say it's supposed to be on.

Yes, so it depends on the rules we all agreed on.  And the rules can differentiate according to the perspective. A street that goes way up to a mountain top actually has a “ up” or “ down”.  Just because we agreed to call it that way. On the exchange XRPUnited we could call XRP “ money” because it’s generally accepted within the exchange. BTC is the “ money” in cryptoworld. USD is money in the US. 

17 minutes ago, Professor Hantzen said:

This is the reason David refers to non-digital currency as "fiat" - it's not a subjective term

Semantics and definitions. In that way “ fiat” is as subjective as “ money”. 

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2 hours ago, Ripple-Stiltskin said:

Triggered by this statement.

So when spending Euro’s in real life ( buying groceries, a car, paying my mortgage etc) , I’m putting downwards pressure on € relative to $ ?  I don’t think so. 

Whole discussion is troubled by comparing apples and oranges. Fiat has all the functions we dedicate to- and call “ money” and XRP has not. 

When buying a bicycle on Ebay, we say I bought a bicycle , and we don’t say I just sold some € . 

i'd agree, but in fairness, DS does state "a sale of fiat" in his tweet...all about context and perspective, as with most things, i guess.

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19 minutes ago, xrpmeplease said:

i'd agree, but in fairness, DS does state "a sale of fiat" in his tweet...all about context and perspective, as with most things, i guess.

Yes, he’s trying to set a standard ( in many ways, lol). If we all agree on his definition then as of now we’ll speak of “ selling or buying fiat”. 

But again: I know what we mean when we say “ fiat” , but personally I only consider the € as “ fiat”.  I narrowed the definition for personal use. 

Edited by Ripple-Stiltskin

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30 minutes ago, Ripple-Stiltskin said:

In that way “ fiat” is as subjective as “ money”. 

"Fiat" is not subjective as "money" is.  When people use the word "money", they often are actually saying "my home countries common currency".  "Fiat" does not have any such baggage and is typically used specifically to eliminate that subjective element and refer to instead "any countries common currency".

Fiat currency is a term typically used to refer to legal tender issued by a government.  "Money" is the term typically used to refer to currency issued by "my" government.

As others have remarked, in currency exchange, it is commonplace (if not also useful), to refer to one party buying a currency whilst the other party simultaneously is selling theirs, and vice versa.  This is just because that is an exactly accurate description of what is happening.  But, because both parties are doing the same thing but with opposing currencies, and this can be confusing when coming to talk about those currencies and which point of view should be considered "correct".  The terms "base" and "counter" were invented to describe the activity from the arbitrary and mutually-agreeable point of view of the presented order of the quote-pair in the market concerned.  BASE/COUNTER, XRP/USD, EUR/JPY etc.  This is particularly useful when writing trading software (or distributed ledger systems for that matter).

Edited by Professor Hantzen

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11 minutes ago, Professor Hantzen said:

Fiat" is not subjective as "money" is.  When people use the word "money", they often are actually saying "my home countries common currency".  "Fiat" does not have any such baggage and is typically used specifically to eliminate that subjective element and refer to instead "any countries common currency".

It all comes down who you’re asking about the definition of money or fiat. Ask 1000 random people both definitions and you’ll get 1000 slightly different answers. Even within academic ( or crypto-) circles you’ll get different interpretations.  When is something “ subjective” and when “ objective” ? What’s the ( or your) measure or metric to call a ( or the use of a) word subjective or objective? Grade of acceptance? How measured? A statistic relevant survey? “ common use in the street”? 

Is Pluto a planet, dwarf planet, a moon or just a rock flying around in the universe. Ongoing discussion in academic circles. 

Edited by Ripple-Stiltskin

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5 minutes ago, Ripple-Stiltskin said:

It all comes down who you’re asking about the definition of money or fiat. Ask 1000 random people both definitions and you’ll get 1000 slightly different answers. Even within academic ( or crypto-) circles you’ll get different interpretations.  When is something “ subjective” and when “ objective” ? What’s the ( or your) measure or metric to call a ( or the use of a) word subjective or objective? Grade of acceptance? How measured? A statistic relevant survey? “ common use in the street”? 

Is Pluto a planet, dwarf planet, a moon or just a rock flying around in the universe. Ongoing discussion in academic circles. 

Haha! Maybe you could just concede that @Professor Hantzen raises a valid point instead of creating a straw man argument with nihilistic tendencies...

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6 minutes ago, opaopa said:

Haha! Maybe you could just concede that @Professor Hantzen raises a valid point instead of creating a straw man argument with nihilistic tendencies...

We’re discussing wether the term “ money” is more subjective than the term “ fiat”. ( or rather that fiat isn’t subjective)

Have you something valuable to add to this discussion? 

Edited by Ripple-Stiltskin

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3 minutes ago, Ripple-Stiltskin said:

We’re discussing wether the term “ money” is more subjective than the term “ fiat”. 

Have you something vabluable to add to this discussion? 

Yes. Fiat is less subjective then money, @Professor Hantzen explained this sufficiently. End of discussion.

Edited by opaopa

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