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P3T3RIS

xRapid execution order confirmed by David Schwarz

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”Every xRapid payment that succeeds involves a sale of fiat for XRP and then a purchase of fiat with XRP on one of the crypto exchanges that partners with us.”

 

I have never claimed that RippleNet partner exchanges are not used for xRapid, of course they are. But, and here’s a big but....

If my exchange was in RippleNet as a partner exchange, I’m not sure if I would open that required orderbook for outsiders at all, because I can fill it myself and profit from conversion - payment when someone is sending money from my currencies to some other, and I would profit from conversion - settlement when someone is receiving money in the currencies I offer.

Unless someone would want to send money from one currency I offer to another currency I offer, when I could profit from conversion - payment - settlement, If xRapid needs to enter ledger, and if not, I could profit from conversion - settlement.

 

Because of the reasons I just explained, I would build another orderbook for each currency I serve that uses XRP as counter currency and then make sure no outsider can mess with it. No bots except my own, no traders, nothing allowed to join, UNLESS they POOL their XRP with mine if required capital grows to those highs. All xRapid transactions would be routed through this and public orderbook where fiat is the counter currency would be used by traders, speculators, investors etc, just like they are today.. Basically open market gives price to XRP for me to use for xRapid purposes elsewhere. Calculations are atomic.

And this is exactly what David just said without mentioning closed orderbooks, that xRapid transactions are started by selling your fiat for XRP and then on other end that same XRP is used for purchase (buying) of fiat.

This execution order is impossible unless XRP is used as counter currency in both ends exchange. And especially when trying to serve multiple currencies inside one exchange that provides liquidity using XRP to all corridors they have.

 

So... using a closed orderbook that I fill with my own money, I can set quite much liquidity very close to the ticker and make sure no manipulator could benefit from my stack, buying from it or selling into it if market moves suddenly. 

There would be very little slippage and orders would get executed fast. And if I would serve many currencies, balances just move on my trading accounts between currencies and trades get executed in no time at all.

This requires money, lots of money, but let me worry about that.

Of course you have given thought to all this, but just in case.... I thought I open my world a little further 😊

 

And before you answer, make sure you understand what I just explained.

Edited by P3T3RIS

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@P3T3RIS Agreed. It's import for a retail market participant, like myself, who has positioned my xrp and fiat in the public order book on Bitso, to know the same order book is being used in xRapid transactions and exactly how it works. 

FULL DISCLOSURE My motivation for joining Bitso, profit and xRapid adoption.

I am assuming risk to provide liquidity to xRapid. There is a debate about xRapid, and exchanges like Bitso, could be suffering from the chicken/egg situation. The argument is, no one is using xRapid in Mexico because there isn't enough liquidity. So I, personally, put some of my personal assets onto Bitso order books.

If my xrp and fiat isn't improving the chances of xRapid being used by adding liquidity, then why am I taking the risk? 

With that said, it is also important to understand which side of the order book is used for transactions. Ripple talks about remittances from many countries into Mexico. If 90% of the xRapid transactions are converting XRP to MXN. You're damn right it matters which side of the book it's on! 

Once I have MXN, I might be better off moving it off Bitso via BTC to another exchange rather than sit and wait for an outgoing xRapid transaction. 

This is what many of you fail to consider. We're not discussing the linguistics of "buy A is theoretically sell B."

Edited by LordVetinari

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8 hours ago, P3T3RIS said:

Like I wrote... You do that in a week and get confirmation from Ripple, you get that 1000 XRP.

Just get a confirmation from Ripple employee that public orderbook you and I see in Bitso XRP/MXN is used for xRapid and I’m more than happy to send you those funds.

Why, because I believe that exchanges do not want to sell XRP out of their stack but provide the path for money to move and profit from there.

This probably does mean nothing to you, since you only buy XRP as investment, but I try to think of all possible ways to use my stack to use it inside the system, add to the overall stack I have and making profit by providing liquidity to the market; acting as market maker instead of taker.

I know this sounds strange, but if you’d see what I see, you would be buying today.

can you eli5? how would would profit from doing this?

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12 hours ago, zerpian said:

I get your point but (again) this has nothing to do with subjectivity rather with categorization. You start with money, a broad term. There is a reason why at the top level, at the all encompassing level, the definition has not been narrowed, because otherwise you can't create subcategories. The narrowing of the definition starts with the subcategories,... 

If money (category label) were to mean fiat (subcategory label), then where shall we place (private) digital tokens, cash, bank deposits,...

Well, of course? I'm in no way saying that money = fiat. I'm in fact trying to argue against such a definition.

Your argument that 1. this is categorization and 2. therefore it has nothing to do with subjectivity makes no sense to me. Why would they be mutually exclusive to each other?

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1 hour ago, LordVetinari said:

There's a reason 5 year olds aren't in finance. 😜

I've actually found most of finance to be at the 5yo level, but they put in lots of effort to make it appear like rocket science. _ARCH models are a good example of this: "So you're saying tomorrow will probably be like today?", "Yes dad, obviously tomorrow will be like today. We can predict the future now, it's easy"...      

On a serious note, I've read every post in this thread and still don't understand what you guys are arguing about. :popcorn1:

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5 hours ago, opaopa said:

Well, of course? I'm in no way saying that money = fiat. I'm in fact trying to argue against such a definition.

No but you're saying money is objective and fiat subjective.

 

5 hours ago, opaopa said:

Your argument that 1. this is categorization and 2. therefore it has nothing to do with subjectivity makes no sense to me. Why would they be mutually exclusive to each other?

Because it has historically grown - certainly in the case of money. By surviving time and the subjects of those times, it has come to our times. Unless a paradigm shift, no subject can't change this given fact in our times. In that context, mind that money has more extended history than fiat.

@opaopa, edited.

Edited by zerpian

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27 minutes ago, zerpian said:

No but you're saying money is objective and fiat subjective.

 

Because it's historically - certainly in the case of money - grown that way. By surviving time and the subjects of those times, it has come to our times. Unless a paradigm shift, no subject can this given fact in our times. In that context, mind that money has more extended history than fiat.

Not to be rude, but you really need to improve in the way you communicatie if any meaningful discussion on this subject is going to take place. I can't decipher the above.

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50 minutes ago, Wandering_Dog said:

On a serious note, I've read every post in this thread and still don't understand what you guys are arguing about

There are 3 conversations going on in here. Maybe just two, but I think 3 and now 4 or maybe 3.

Edited by LordVetinari

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25 minutes ago, Wandering_Dog said:

On a serious note, I've read every post in this thread and still don't understand what you guys are arguing about. :popcorn1:

So I take it you've never seen Indiana Jones And The Raiders Of The Lost Orderbook :) 

I do appreciate that @LordVetinari is adding liquidity on Bitso. Wishing him good profits :hi: 

Amateurs were doing well with on-ledger arbitrage before xRapid, at least percentage-wise. Everything was highly inefficient; good for market makers. 

There was even a blog about a musician writing bots in 2015: https://ripple.com/insights/the-life-of-a-ripple-market-maker/ He's still on the forum too. 

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I was thinking about monies and fiat and reading on how First Bank of US went insolvent, then through private bankers such as Steven Girard, Second Bank of US was organized with renewed solvency; like for example, hypothetically speaking, can current US fed buy few billion XRP over the counter from Ripple, then systematically and in an organized way spend few more billion dollars and buy up XRP (on the open market) until it is worth like $10,000 each and then again systematically and in an organized way make XRP the new digital de facto world currency/fiat/monies/bridge/conduit/21 century greenback reserve, and pay off their multi trillion dollar debt problem, and at the end, everyone would/should live happily ever after......walking bravely into the New Digital Age!?! :dthinking:

Edited by joe91
forgot to write an important detail

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2 hours ago, joe91 said:

I was thinking about monies and fiat and reading on how First Bank of US went insolvent, then through private bankers such as Steven Girard, Second Bank of US was organized with renewed solvency; like for example, hypothetically speaking, can current US fed buy few billion XRP over the counter from Ripple, then systematically and in an organized way spend few more billion dollars and buy up XRP (on the open market) until it is worth like $10,000 each and then again systematically and in an organized way make XRP the new digital de facto world currency/fiat/monies/bridge/conduit/21 century greenback reserve, and pay off their multi trillion dollar debt problem, and at the end, everyone would/should live happily ever after......walking bravely into the New Digital Age!?! :dthinking:

It would take a lot more than a few billion dollars of buy pressure to drive the price of xrp up to $10,000. 

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@joe91

You are right, although like @rootvegetable says, the money needed is not that, and it can not be done at once.

When xRapid adoption now grows and all banks slowly turn into exchanges, it is essential to hodl XRP to be able to profit. Not just buy and sell, but hodl, for reasons I explained few posts earlier. You can then set prices for your services and benefit long term.

First country/central bank/bank that now buys 1 - 5 billion XRP over coming years is a major player in global economy for decades and first countries to do so will be able to pay all their national debt by selling slowly their holdings once adoption has expanded.

They just won’t pay that anymore, since cashflow they generate by hodling and pooling their stack with others will surpass all interest costs they have to pay and they can use their XRP as collateral to loan money.

I’m glad people start to see this, and when you see this, you realise that price of 1 XRP will eventually be very high.

@invest2lose I did not quite understand what you meant with your guestion about making profit in a way I explained. I’ll be happy to reply if there’s something in my post that you want to be clarified.

Edited by P3T3RIS

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4 hours ago, rootvegetable said:

It would take a lot more than a few billion dollars of buy pressure to drive the price of xrp up to $10,000. 

I am pretty confident about 3  billion dollars will be enough to do the trick - there is no way 10 billion xrp is hanging on the open market - few billion dollars will eat through all the books in the world like a hot knife tasting virgin butter - (and all the new cumers will be swallowed as well) -

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