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Ripple's Chief Market Strategist says: Banks do not want all their financial transactions on the public ledger

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15 minutes ago, jcdenton said:

This is too vague. The OP linked article was from a time when FIs were thought to operate their own wallets rather than getting routed through exchanges.  

Not at all. I might see them if I work at that exchange and all individual employees have their own account at that exchange for some reason, but that is not "public," and is happening in banks today. 

I think we just disagree here. I used to mine data from the phone networks, and there's lots you can learn/derive from raw transaction data. Regardless, scroll up, look at the video from Chris Larsen. He's telling us most transactions won't go over the public ledger, they will be on private ledgers with payment channels. I guess take it up with him, as there's a reason he said it.

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5 minutes ago, SamIam said:

Dude, seriously, this conversation is over your head. Nobody is disagreeing with you.

You don't even have a basic understanding of xRapid and what blockchain is and you are telling me this is over MY head?

You are describing correspondent banking you moron.

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1 minute ago, BrownBear said:

You don't even have a basic understanding of xRapid and what blockchain is and you are telling me this is over MY head?

You are describing correspondent banking you moron.

Like I said, you're clearly not following the discussion, and now your resorting to personal attacks to cover that fact.

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3 minutes ago, SamIam said:

I think we just disagree here. I used to mine data from the phone networks, and there's lots you can learn/derive from raw transaction data. Regardless, scroll up, look at the video from Chris Larsen. He's telling us most transactions won't go over the public ledger, they will be on private ledgers with payment channels. I guess take it up with him, as there's a reason he said it.

You're misrepresenting my point, but yes, let's leave it there. 

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1 minute ago, SamIam said:

Like I said, you're clearly not following the discussion, and now your resorting to personal attacks to cover that fact.

And saying "It's clearly over your head." is not a personal attack huh? You started this princess when you got called out on your ******** for saying you can transfer XRP without involving the XRPL.

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2 minutes ago, BrownBear said:

And saying "It's clearly over your head." is not a personal attack huh? You started this princess when you got called out on your ******** for saying you can transfer XRP without involving the XRPL.

There you go, I went back and tagged you as well since the same comment seems to apply equally.

How long are you guys going to keep ******** on the discussion here? Don't get enough attention at home? Hate your life and this is your outlet? How about you contribute instead of waste time attacking others?

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1 minute ago, SamIam said:

How long are you guys going to keep ******** on the discussion here? Don't get enough attention at home? Hate your life and this is your outlet? How about you contribute instead of waste time attacking others?

You are wasting people time because you have no clue what you are talking about. Let me give you an example.

You said that Larsen talked about payment channels and that these are off-ledger. This is 100% false. Claims made against the transactions are off-ledger, but the settling of the transactions uses the standard XRPL consensus process.

paychan-flow.png

 

You are wasting peoples time with stuff you don't understand and you are trying to twist things to suit your flawed understanding of how XRP is to function.

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2 hours ago, SamIam said:

Why do you think the banks would care if they buy 1,000 XRP@$10 or 100 XRP@$100?

This is where you went horribly wrong.  Your original post re: batching possibility/private market making amongst multiple exchanges was at least in the "can see how that may be useful" realm - but when you introduce this "price is irrelevant" stuff, it's your own fault when people say stuff like "hey, congrats, you just re-invented correspondent banking!"  If "price is irrelevant" then all that your complications have managed to accomplish is "messaging" - which is already accomplishable without all of this fustian/over-complication.

*shrug*

ETA:  Here's a story that may or may not be useful:

When teaching kids how to play card games, I will often use whatever's at hand - whether it's quarters, nickels, dimes, pennies, beads, marbles - or some mixture of those, if there aren't enough to go around - and I'm just teaching principles (and not actually trying to take their milk money) - and I tell them that each one is worth 1 (or $1 or $100 or 1 unit, etc).  I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to push, on story level, but it strikes me that you're saying something like "for testing purposes, some x participants on a private ledger have set the value of XRP equal to $1 each - or whatever valuation/price for XRP, just to make it easier to test/learn "in principle" - but when they switch onto the "real" system, instead of switching out to "real" market prices, they're going to do some really stupid thing - ie, continue using those 'test' valuations or buy up the outstanding orderbooks to make the entire market match the value of their test token - and then convert the entire market to that peg! - and - bling! - we're so rich, then!"   This would be incredibly popular with the kids that I tell each penny is worth $1, as a token, for simplicity's sake - but no adult has yet to come up to me after the game and say "Ok, my Sammy won 92 pennies during that game, which I heard you [messaging] tell them were worth $1 each --- so, go find your wallet, because you owe me just under $100 bucks - settle up, teach!"  (Obviously, I'd think the guy was joking - but if he really "believed" it - oh my, oh my...)

What really happens, if this is even happening (for which I've seen you show no proof, btw - not that it makes much sense to do any proof of concept in such a simplified way, anyway, as it defeats the purpose of teaching the participants anything *new* and is instead just teaching them about messages, with which they're all already familiar), is that they'd simply turn in or turn off their "every coin = $100" stuff - and grow up - and join the real XRP markets.

I'm not attacking you, btw... this is not personal, for me, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't make it personal, for you, either.  (But, the above is "what I see".)

Edited by NightJanitor
Example

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37 minutes ago, jcdenton said:

Not at all. I might see them if I work at that exchange and all individual employees have their own account at that exchange for some reason, but that is not "public," and is happening in banks today. 

If I am your employee an my salary is paid out over the ledger at the same time all my collegues are being paid out, I can easily obtain a list of all your payments to my collegues. That is something entirely different than bank employees having access to that data.

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1 minute ago, lucky said:

If I am your employee an my salary is paid out over the ledger at the same time all my collegues are being paid out, I can easily obtain a list of all your payments to my collegues. That is something entirely different than bank employees having access to that data.

Well only if you're paid directly in XRP and your employer uses none of the simple remedies for this. In which case you should switch employers :)

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1 minute ago, jcdenton said:

Well only if you're paid directly in XRP and your employer uses none of the simple remedies for this. In which case you should switch employers :)

Also if I am paid in fiat. How can you not see the problem?

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3 minutes ago, lucky said:

Also if I am paid in fiat. How can you not see the problem?

Don't know, maybe I'm just slow today.

I'm drawing a blank on how you can be paid in fiat over the XRPL.  

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Just now, jcdenton said:

Don't know, maybe I'm just slow today.

I'm drawing a blank on how you can be paid in fiat over the XRPL.  

We are talking about xRapid.

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1 minute ago, lucky said:

We are talking about xRapid.

So, last effort, I'm sending the sum of salaries to my subsidiary in your country via xRapid and there is an easily obtainable list that will tell you who gets how much? 

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1 minute ago, jcdenton said:

So, last effort, I'm sending the sum of salaries to my subsidiary in your country via xRapid and there is an easily obtainable list that will tell you who gets how much? 

Not who, only how much. The who requires further deduction. If I see 100 payments equal to my salary, 10 payments double my salary, and one payment triple my salary, I can deduce that managers get paid double, and the boss gets paid triple. That may be reason for me to ask for a raise.

If a bank wants to keep their clients transactions private, they must be 100% private  not 99.99%. No leaking of client payment details whatsoever.

And my point is you can easily obtain that 100% privacy, plus unlimited scalability, by using buffers. This means that not every single xRapid payment hits the ledger.

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