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Garlichouse - Flip the switch mane

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4 minutes ago, Qasim_786 said:

Xrapid is "essentially" a wash trade, without the context of market manipulation. A quantity of xrp is bought for a set amount of fiat and then sold shortly thereafter for another form of fiat with the hope of minimal volatility in between the 2 trades.  

Not "essentially" a wash trade either. Xrapid has two legs and involves 3-4 parties. You can argue that it doesn't put immediate pressure on price, then again wash trading would be the oddest comparison to pick in that context. 

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3 minutes ago, jcdenton said:

Not "essentially" a wash trade either. Xrapid has two legs and involves 3-4 parties. You can argue that it doesn't put immediate pressure on price, then again wash trading would be the oddest comparison to pick in that context. 

No it isn't. The fact xrapid consists of 2 legs does not change the fact the underlying principle is the buying a selling shortly thereafter of ideally the same amount of xrp. Just as in a.....wash trade. Regardless of whether you like the analogy or not, we both agree the xrapid transaction itself does not put immediate pressure on price itself as you put it. 

I agree the knock on effect of xrapid, namely custodianship and market makers will have an effect on xrp price. 

 

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Ok so what i got from all this is xrapid will wash manipulation of trading away with it utilization by agrivating market makers local curency🤓

Edited by Shuz

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13 minutes ago, Qasim_786 said:

No it isn't. The fact xrapid consists of 2 legs does not change the fact the underlying principle is the buying a selling shortly thereafter of ideally the same amount of xrp. Just as in a.....wash trade. Regardless of whether you like the analogy or not, we both agree the xrapid transaction itself does not put immediate pressure on price itself as you put it. 

I agree the knock on effect of xrapid, namely custodianship and market makers will have an effect on xrp price. 

 

Wash trading can be used to make things look different than reality, i.e increase volume, or activity. 

Regular trading increases volume and activity

Does not mean that one is the same as the other.

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Just now, LiquidGoat said:

Wash trading can be used to make things look different than reality, i.e increase volume, or activity. 

Regular trading increases volume and activity

Does not mean that one is the same as the other.

agree.

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9 minutes ago, WrathofKahneman said:

Interesting.  The buying and selling are occurring on different exchanges though. The efficiency of arbitrage and local currencies seems like it would come in play in aggregate.

Yes xrapid from what I have read would be like automated arbitrage, but, the reverse is just as likely. A drop in currency value between 2 legs of xrapid would be a loss for market makers. 

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22 minutes ago, Qasim_786 said:

No it isn't. The fact xrapid consists of 2 legs does not change the fact the underlying principle is the buying a selling shortly thereafter of ideally the same amount of xrp. Just as in a.....wash trade. Regardless of whether you like the analogy or not, we both agree the xrapid transaction itself does not put immediate pressure on price itself as you put it. 

I agree the knock on effect of xrapid, namely custodianship and market makers will have an effect on xrp 

That's still not what a wash trade is. And we can agree that a plane is essentially a bedroom because neither of them have front incisors, but it's not a great argument. 

Anyway, I am being a bit nitpicky and distracting from the overall point, I have to admit that. Not worth arguing over as much as I initially thought. 

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3 minutes ago, jcdenton said:

That's still not what a wash trade is. And we can agree that a plane is essentially a bedroom because neither of them have front incisors, but it's not a great argument. 

Anyway, I am being a bit nitpicky and distracting from the overall point, I have to admit that. Not worth arguing over as much as I initially thought. 

Lol. These first class cabins nowadays are basically flying bedrooms!

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50 minutes ago, Qasim_786 said:

Competition between market makers is what will increase the price of xrp according t@JoelKatz and not the utility of xrapid itself. 

(I bolded text)

I don't think that is quite what he said.  He believes that many entities (including market makers) will want to hold XRP.  That buying-to-hold demand is based on the utility of XRapid (and presumably other use cases).

"If you want to use XRP to bridge a payment, someone has to hold that XRP until you need it. If that market is large and competitive, that means lots of people are."

By not saying anything directly about the actual effect of XRapid he is indirectly implying that XRapid itself is not the driver of price rises.  

I personally think there is an asymmetric aspect to XRapid because of the way market makers will be batching their buys,  but packeting their sells.  That's just my belief and I could be wrong.

There was some very unusual price action in September (I think?) that I really really hope was down to XRapid trials,  but my confidence level on that is not high.

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7 minutes ago, Tinyaccount said:

I personally think there is an asymmetric aspect to XRapid because of the way market makers will be batching their buys,  but packeting their sells. 

Interesting, explain more please? 

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6 minutes ago, Tinyaccount said:

There was some very unusual price action in September (I think?) that I really really hope was down to XRapid trials,  but my confidence level on that is not high.

Yes that price action was unusual. And maybe my point of view is wrong and xrapid being utilised will blow the top off the thing. Just trying to make best sense of the available info out there. 

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6 minutes ago, jcdenton said:

Interesting, explain more please? 

I think there are some small asymmetries that tend to give a small but positive price pressure.  

The first is that provided by the often unidirectional nature of remittances.  Foreign nationals send money from commerce centres to poorer countries.  That means the flow is unidirectional.  So arbitrage will close the circle,  but it does so _after_ the price effect of the buys has occurred.  So the price is nudged up by the buys in the originating market occurring AFTER the price effect has applied.  So it's an effect of the arrow of time...  things have moved before the circle is closed.

The second asymmetry I see comes from batch sizing.  The buys and sells of XRapid are packetised into small amounts but the market makers running short of XRP in the originating market will need to buy in larger size in an alternate market, or or in the terminal market, before transferring back to originating.  I think there is likely to be asymmetry from the sizes and hence again a small upward pressure.

This is just a dumb Aussie non-finance-savvy newb idly guessing at how things work...   I could easily be wrong.

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4 minutes ago, Tinyaccount said:

I think there are some small asymmetries that tend to give a small but positive price pressure.  

The first is that provided by the often unidirectional nature of remittances.  Foreign nationals send money from commerce centres to poorer countries.  That means the flow is unidirectional.  So arbitrage will close the circle,  but it does so _after_ the price effect of the buys has occurred.  So the price is nudged up by the buys in the originating market occurring AFTER the price effect has applied.  So it's an effect of the arrow of time...  things have moved before the circle is closed.

The second asymmetry I see comes from batch sizing.  The buys and sells of XRapid are packetised into small amounts but the market makers running short of XRP in the originating market will need to buy in larger size in an alternate market, or or in the terminal market, before transferring back to originating.  I think there is likely to be asymmetry from the sizes and hence again a small upward pressure.

This is just a dumb Aussie non-finance-savvy newb idly guessing at how things work...   I could easily be wrong.

Interesting speculation, thanks. Haven't thought of it, but it could play out that way. The context I see is that this market will remain speculation driven for many years. Therefore, xRapid isn't required to put upward pressure on price in the first place. It's required to put upward pressure on legitimacy. 

What matters to us is stuff like Bakkt as well as some things that may look pretty ridiculous. For example, Gwyneth Paltrow's goop magazine published a primer on crypto not long ago. What blockchain is, what the celebrity coins are, how to invest in them, and how crypto can help with financing washing machines. https://goop.com/work/money/the-basics-of-bitcoin-and-cryptocurrency-and-how-to-invest/

If that made you giggle, understand that women absolutely demolish men in terms of purchasing power. It's well known across consumer industries: >50% more purchasing power. Now look at the eToro graphic attached. 

As far as price is concerned, this stuff dwarfs every discussion on this board. xRapid this, xRapid that. It's fun to think about and discuss. The real gains will come from somewhere else. 

Screenshot 2018-12-08 at 23.03.28.png

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