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Hi Maxza,

i might spend some time looking at the 'tangle' but at a superficial level I am deeply concerned about the complexity of such approaches - technically. 

The fact that they have no technical expertise is a big flag. This is true of most of the alts.

it us insulting that the founder hides in his purported picture.

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Did someone say Chris Larsen joined their BoD?

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1 hour ago, Mazza said:

 

anyways, back to the chart... it went on to close at 68 mBTC per MIOTA (went higher before coming down a bit) and from my A level physics and Maths, that's 0.0000068 BTC per MIOTA, not 0.68 BTC per MIOTA, no way! not even close. This tool could be useful... https://iota.tools/ 

 

mBTC = 1/1 000th (milli-bitcoins, mBTC)

68 mBTC = .068 BTC

MIOTA is what is sold now at Biftinex and the price is .00021 BTC

So again, what am I missing here?

 

Quote

Just looking back at my spreadsheet as the maths did confuse me a bit at the start -- I had just made one of my final purchases and my holdings of IOTA were 66,693,000,000 (66.7 Giga IOTA), price was at 56 on that chart and I calculated my holding to be worth 5,643$ USD while BTC was @1446$ USD. 

 

As for your holdings. 66.7 GIOTA = 66 700 MIOTA (right?)

66 700 * 0.60 USD (avg Bitfinex today) = 40 020 USD

Can I ask how much you paid to get 66 GIOTA? That would make it easy to calculate  the pre-Bitfinex price.

 

I'm interested to trade/invest in this, but I wanna be sure not to be holding the bag if everyone dumps.

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3 minutes ago, Malloy said:

mBTC = 1/1 000th (milli-bitcoins, mBTC)

68 mBTC = .068 BTC

MIOTA is what is sold now at Biftinex and the price is .00021 BTC

So again, what am I missing here?

 

 

As for your holdings. 66.7 GIOTA = 66 700 MIOTA (right?)

66 700 * 0.60 USD (avg Bitfinex today) = 40 020 USD

Can I ask how much you paid to get 66 GIOTA? That would make it easy to calculate  the pre-Bitfinex price.

 

I'm interested to trade/invest in this, but I wanna be sure not to be holding the bag if everyone dumps.

sorry chap, my mistake on the math this time... I added an additional zero... it aint easy, esp. while trading IOTA on bitfinex for me and my brother (bought him into xrp at 29c so got a lot to make up for :), but got 20BTC to my name now so going well I think, need to do accounting for the day).

Right so uBTC would be the correct symbol. Micro not Milli. My bad. 

in terms of working out what I paid for my iota, was a little more than the 66Giota that I got, but I worked it out to be around the 0.075 BTC per GIOTA, approx. 50 on that chart. I think community admin saw it launching around 0.15 BTC per Giota, but I've been pleasently suprised by the high price. Now perhaps the big bag holders are giving us smaller fish a chance to feed, before they come in, I'm getting more nervous with every cycle and the margin in narrowing.

Hope that helps...

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6 minutes ago, Mazza said:

Right so uBTC would be the correct symbol. Micro not Milli. My bad. 

in terms of working out what I paid for my iota, was a little more than the 66Giota that I got, but I worked it out to be around the 0.075 BTC per GIOTA, approx. 50 on that chart. I think community admin saw it launching around 0.15 BTC per Giota, but I've been pleasently suprised by the high price. Now perhaps the big bag holders are giving us smaller fish a chance to feed, before they come in, I'm getting more nervous with every cycle and the margin in narrowing.

Hope that helps...

So, 68 uBTC = .000068 BTC was the last price on the chart that is no longer available

You paid around 0.075 BTC per GIOTA = 0.000075 BTC per MIOTA..just a bit higher...

And the price now is around 0.00021 BTC per MIOTA...about 3x what you paid.

Right?

If so, still nice profit for a couple days work :-) That helps figuring out where to place my orders if I feel there is some future with this one.

Thanks.

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33 minutes ago, Malloy said:

So, 68 uBTC = .000068 BTC was the last price on the chart that is no longer available

You paid around 0.075 BTC per GIOTA = 0.000075 BTC per MIOTA..just a bit higher...

And the price now is around 0.00021 BTC per MIOTA...about 3x what you paid.

Right?

If so, still nice profit for a couple days work :-) That helps figuring out where to place my orders if I feel there is some future with this one.

Thanks.

Yup.

We got there in the end... 3:30am UK time, on the very go slow...

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A good summary article from the founder. 

I was replying to Max earlier today at work but before I could finish the blooming PC restarted for a update my IT department forced upon me... damn. Basically I was saying that I don't mind the founder keeping his indentity private, I believe we are all entitled to this (aka Mr Satoshi -- perhaps David wants to keep his family, friends and life the way it is rather than his wealth driving his life... I get this completely and would want to do the same if I was a founder of something big -- which it already is). On another point Max raises, as in the code isn't available, perhaps the this is IP related and the sealth mode approach; wanting to be first to market or gaining as big a head start as possible (again I can completely understand this)...  and now I remember, RUST was the language that I remember reading about -- being cutting edge, even more lean than the leaner C + + + version or whatever, (sorry coding knowledge isn't my thing). 

I read an article today on the blog about the distribution of the IOTA and that it had a GNIM index (or something like that -- concentration of wealth (value/no. of accounts)) of 85%, compared to 99% of bitcoin (still seemed high to me -- sorry no link to hand and work starts in 5 hours, need to sleep), and now this summary article which starts to answer a number of questions that I had. I'm even more intriuged to find out and understand more. 

Wonder what @JoelKatz makes of the PoW, CURL processor, the COO and security information summarised? Worth a 5min read the article is. 

BTW thx JK for the reply in the other thread, good to see we can get info about Ripple when we need it. The IOTA lightwallet is interesting, poor UX imo... knock me up if you ever need any input on UX design on present/future wallet work, me and my team (we're all invested in XRP now) would be happy to help.

Mazza (a Senior Learning Technologist @ a UK university -- no Max, you don't get any more than that ;) )

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1 hour ago, Mazza said:

A good summary article from the founder. 

I was replying to Max earlier today at work but before I could finish the blooming PC restarted for a update my IT department forced upon me... damn. Basically I was saying that I don't mind the founder keeping his indentity private, I believe we are all entitled to this (aka Mr Satoshi -- perhaps David wants to keep his family, friends and life the way it is rather than his wealth driving his life... I get this completely and would want to do the same if I was a founder of something big -- which it already is). On another point Max raises, as in the code isn't available, perhaps the this is IP related and the sealth mode approach; wanting to be first to market or gaining as big a head start as possible (again I can completely understand this)...  and now I remember, RUST was the language that I remember reading about -- being cutting edge, even more lean than the leaner C + + + version or whatever, (sorry coding knowledge isn't my thing). 

I read an article today on the blog about the distribution of the IOTA and that it had a GNIM index (or something like that -- concentration of wealth (value/no. of accounts)) of 85%, compared to 99% of bitcoin (still seemed high to me -- sorry no link to hand and work starts in 5 hours, need to sleep), and now this summary article which starts to answer a number of questions that I had. I'm even more intriuged to find out and understand more. 

Wonder what @JoelKatz makes of the PoW, CURL processor, the COO and security information summarised? Worth a 5min read the article is. 

BTW thx JK for the reply in the other thread, good to see we can get info about Ripple when we need it. The IOTA lightwallet is interesting, poor UX imo... knock me up if you ever need any input on UX design on present/future wallet work, me and my team (we're all invested in XRP now) would be happy to help.

Mazza (a Senior Learning Technologist @ a UK university -- no Max, you don't get any more than that ;) )

I would also like to see the code. Max has raised good points. I don't agree with some of them, as most of the alts probably have fairly thin publicly available info early in development, but his points are not to be dismissed so easily. I would like to see the core code for this. I am rusty in my programming, but I know sophisticated code when I review it. Their github is devoid of much of anything. That's weird.

The IOTA marketing material is very slick and polished. They obviously spent a LOT of time making the website look good. Which raises a flag to me. If they were a core group of hard hitting programmers drinking coffee and coding until 4am their web presence would be boring and highly technical. Instead, it is slick and cool and devoid of specifics.

I asked for the org chart on the IOTA slack and I was told they are all too busy to generate one. I thought that was funny. Also told I was FUDing by asking. That was funny too.

I asked for ballpark dates on the roadmap. I was told crypto projects don't work that way. Ok..... That was weird. 

A couple of the IOTA guys did PM me and they seem nice enough. I will follow up with them and see if I can get additional info.

I ENCOURAGE people to lurk in the slack #tanglemath channel. The founder comes in as well as key developers. When I was in this morning, someone was pushing them on security and saying there was a flaw in the underlying theory. They came back at it, but it was the usual crypto true-believer back and forth. Nothing clear for the small amount of time I spent there. But by all means try it. You can get the measure of some of the core people and decide for yourself.

Their lead developer, Come from Beyond (really, no idea his real name), apparently invented proof of stake and worked on NXT before this? Don't know. That's what they said. Someone can confirm that. I do see him mentioned on the NXT reddit I think.

The math and theory behind making the DAG work PRACTICALLY for the IOTA tangle to me requires some serious trained math and network background (read minimum master's degree probably PhD). Don't know if these people have that or not. Again, no bios, no org chart.

This shady anonymity crap is one of the reasons most of the alt coins will fail in the end. Good ideas are wonderful but you must be able to execute and you must be able to interact professionally with partners and customers. That means you don't go by pseudonyms and you don't consider things like roadmap target dates and org charts to be fundamentally abhorrent.  

Finally, this project is really really in its infancy. Assuming it is above board, you are easily several years away from anything beyond tech demos and trading coins. They don't have the resources to move fast in my opinion. Plan accordingly.

The slack trading channel makes me believe there are a lot of disappointed IOTA people who bought over the counter before exchange release and who were expecting a higher price to dump their coins. So once again, price will continue to drop (also because everything in Crypto-land just turned bearish). At this point, I would expect sub $1B market cap, maybe $750M to $500M or even less. The big IOTA stake holders might try to prop the price up if it goes too far down. Not sure, but be aware it is EASILY manipulated right now. 

Edited by Nedkt

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Good work Nedkt, thanks for sharing your findings.

Agree with you about development road map, should be in place for any operation. 

Also agree that about the transparency of the foundation, however not necessarily individuals images, especially if they want to go forward and attract more investment, etc. 

I believe founder isn't a core developer so could explain the attention their web presence is getting. 

Come-from-beyond is Sergey Ivancheglo (https://medium.com/@cryptojudgement/iota-promise-of-a-bright-crypto-future-6b7517349e32) he's been mentioned as being an ex NXT dev. 

Yeah I agree that IOTA is early in it's development (have mentioned this in another thread) and completely believe that the price has been over-inflated, even at the 0.00015 btc/MIOTA = approx. 1B USD market cap and as you say perhaps at $750 too. The price must be being propped up somewhat. Totally agree that the price is being easily manipulated now.

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1 hour ago, Mazza said:

http://come-from-beyond.okis.ru/ Lead developer on NXT.

Got this from this thread (not sure if you can call it a roadmap though?):

https://blog.iota.org/iota-development-roadmap-74741f37ed01

I don't count that as a roadmap. It's a wish list (a pretty and slick wish list). Roadmaps have target dates. Even if they are broad targets, like Q2 2018 or something. Without any kind of targets, projects meander and never get anywhere. A solid roadmap that people are held to is project management 101. I not only don't see that with this group (yet) but I see at least a few of them actively dismissing such things in the slack discussions. They need to clean up their act on project management or this is just a science project and it will never achieve anything close to what it could.

Is Sergey Ivancheglo the main brains? If the founder isn't a developer, is this guy the main mover? Does he have the chops to make something like this work? There is hard theoretical work yet to be done, especially on the security side, and this work needs to be turned into a functioning tool. Not easy. I would be much more comfortable knowing who the team is and what their qualifications are.  

Edited by Nedkt

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